Hi from another kid

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NoSOat10

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OTIII

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:41 am

Hi from another kid

Wow, this site has been such an amazing place. Thank you all so much for the posts and for stories and insight into the questions and feelings I've carried around for years. My family joined scn when I was very young and tho I'm hardly a kid anymore, I lived my childhood more or less in the church.

I still feel like a kid, I guess. It's kinda weird, 'cause you're treated like an adult at such a young age, and then as you grow up, it seems to go retrograde - I think I was more mature then than I am now in some ways.

My family joined the SO and I lived in a nursery-like place across the street. The place got busted for not being licensed properly and over night we were all moved to a ranch in Mexico to avoid an incident. It was handled so hastily that it felt like being kidnapped. I had no idea where I was going and didn't get to say goodbye to my family. I was 7. I had a little girl I was in charge of. She was 3 or 4. I didn't see my parents for the entire time I was there, somewhere between 3-6 months. It felt like an eternity. Every time a car would drive up the long drive way, we'd all scamper off to our hiding spots until they told us it was safe to come out. We'd all hope against hope that it was our parents, only to be disappointed again and again. I grew to hate this one kid whose family came all the time. It seemed very unfair. When my parents finally came they took me back with them.

When I was about 8 or 9 (10 tops) I was pushed to join the SO. I had done all the checks and steps and had the contract in front of me, pen in hand, but thought better of it at the last minute. I figured I could always join later, but I couldn't un-join later.

My family is split apart - some in forever, some out, some gone. I'd love to say all the things on my mind, but don't want to cause problems for the people I love that are in.

It's taken years to be able to ask the questions I've had - to even acknowledge that they were valid questions, and to be willing to consider an answer that was different from what I'd been surrounded with my whole life.

It has been very helpful to hear about your journeys and ideas, and about what life's like inside the SO, so thank you for sharing. You're reaching more people than you know, and that group will continue to grow.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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ImOut

OTIII

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:56 am

Welcome and thank you for sharing a part of your story.
Isn't it grand to be out!
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Grundy

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Sticky Master

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:36 am

Welcome to the site.

I remember hearing about the mexico thing .... I don't remember what year it was though.
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Tru2form

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:54 am

Welcome to ESK, NoSOat10, we're glad to have you with us, and you've got an amazing story. We're looking forward to having you join the discussion and hearing what you have to say!

-K
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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NoSOat10

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OTIII

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Post Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:54 pm

Thanks for the welcome! I hope that discussions here and in other places on the web lead to improved conditions in the SO, and maybe an amnesty for people who'd like to leave. The current situation is creating bad PR.

Do you see any chance of that coming out of this?
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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James McGuigan

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Post Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:26 pm

To quote Mahatma Gandhi, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

In the war of The Church of Scientology vs the Internet, nobody really expected that the internet would actually be able to strike back the way that it has done so recently.

The Church has already lost, the question is how long it will take for them to admit defeat, and more importantly to publicly admit defeat. This may take a long time, as even with the obvious staring you in the face, nobody wants to admit it, even to themselves, for fear of what it might actually mean. But when it does come, and it will eventually, it will be fairly sudden.

If you take a slightly more historical view on the subject, you will see this pattern in various places.

Gandhi managed to get the British to give independence to India. Active non-violence and civil disobedience, where his tools. When the British realised that violence no longer worked as a means of control, they where forced to directly address the core issues of Gandhi's movement, to which they had no real answers. Martin Luther King used a similar approach in the civil rights movement.

In Scientology speak, part of it boils down to how many times do we need to TR3 the question before you will honestly answer it.

Now look at cases like the fall of the Berlin wall, and the end of the cold war. In both these cases, nobody ever expected these things to end, and then almost overnight they simply collapsed. To the surprise of people on both sides.

However there are no certainties in life. I look at the situation in Tibet, it has gone on for almost 60 years now. The international protests and world attention on the issue bring hope that things might change, but this is against such a powerful and totalitarian regime such as the Chinese government. It almost seems like a game of brinkmanship, the stakes are high and the last thing either side will do is admit defeat, but who will be the first to do it.

Now look at Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe knows he has lost the elections, but refuses to admit it publicly, and is pulling out all the stops and threatening violence to try and find a way out. Though this doen't mean he won't make a big mess on the way out.

A foresight of victory that does not exceed ordinary people's common sense, is not the acme of excellence. A victory that is won through fierce fighting and is universally praised is not the acme of excellence. He who can lift a very light hair is not the one with unusual strength; he who can see both the sun and the moon is not the one with keen sight; he who can hear a thunderclap is not the one with acute hearing.

lt was said in ancient times that those skilled in war always defeated the enemy that could easily be conquered. That is just the point; those skilled in war and win victories have neither the reputation for their wisdom nor the merit for their valour. The reason why they are bound to win is that they have planned for the certainty of their victory and the enemy is already destined to defeat. As a result, he who is skilled in war always finds himself in an invincible position and, at the same time, he will be sure to miss no military opportunities to conquer the enemy.

Thus, a victorious army is one that will not fight with the enemy until it is assured of the conditions for winning, while a defeated army is one that starts the fight first and expects to have victory later. He who is adept in military operations always understands the principles of war and adopts the correct policies, so that victory is entirely in his hands.

- Sun Tzu - The Art of War (part 24)
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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James McGuigan

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Post Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:25 pm

As to the idea of writing future history (or psychohistory as Asimov called it), my predictions are that one or more of the following things will happen, by this time next year, and that it will become a fairly significant catalyst point for a major change within the Church.

1. The US government charges RTC / OSA under the RICO act. Wikileaks may have be a channel for evidence towards this coming out. This would be similar what happened to the Guardians Office after Operation Snow White in 1977. Though it should be noted that this event helped to create a gap that allowed David Miscavage get into power. So would a large number of arrests simply allow another person to take over and carry on the same game. The king is dead, long live the king.

2. Mutiny, leading to Miscavage plus those close to him getting declared suppressive. Currently there have been a few senior people, such as Mike Rinder, who have blown recently. Lots of people can blow, but they will simply be replaced with inexperienced people from below, but after a while this will get noticed. Worldwide protests are probably causing a mass stat-crash, along with lots of lower ethics conditions being assigned may get people to start asking "is it my out-ethics or management's". It should be noted that this also happened when Miscavage first came to power (read up on the Mission Holders Conference), and Miscavage used it as a means of purging anybody he did not believe was 100% loyal to him personally. This involved heavy ethics conditions, on the spot declares, and sending SO people labelled "anti-management" on missions to far off places with almost impossible conditions to succeed and thus return.

3. Miscavage blows. If one day it all just gets too much for him, or fears that he will be arrested in the near future, and decided to take as much money out of the Church as he can, and simply blows... but probably with a cover story that people will buy for long enough to let him get out of the country.

4. Celerity revolt. Lots of celebs talk about being in Scientology, but according to Jason Beghe many may just be sitting on the sidelines and not being really active, but don't wish to publicly leave. If the negative publicity around Scientology gets to the point that being associated with it is doing far more damage to their careers than quietly remaining in it, then you might start to see a flow of celebrity detractors. This would be fairly hard to keep under wraps, and would get noticed by the rank and file members of the church, who would start questioning a few other things about the church.


Well those are my guesses as to what might just happen, but by putting these down on paper, I'll probably be proved completely wrong. and laughed about for the rest of internet time.

Of course the biggest un-asked question is what will happen the current power structure crumbles. Will somebody else simply step in and continue to the same old game, or will enough people have learnt the lesson and the Church is simply replaced by a decentralised freezone style organizational structure, with lots of individuals simply doing their own thing, and others never wanting to touch Scientology with a barge poll again.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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NoSOat10

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OTIII

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Post Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:23 pm

Thanks for your thoughts. Very interesting...

The church has been responsible for more pain in my life than I can talk about, but because of my family I can't say that I hope for its demise. I hope for its improvement. I hope that whatever the leadership is or becomes, that there is a realization that the church needs to be altered. When Ron was around he could write new policies to address a changing world. It wasn't static then, and it can't exist if it is static. The policies that currently exist are inadequate to ensure the survival of the group. Human rights abuses and child labor law violations need to stop. Fair game attacks will not stand up to the light of law. Families need to be allowed to stay in communication with each other regardless of their standings within the church. Sea Org members should be free to leave AT WILL.

Regardless of whether what Ron intended was good or bad, I know for sure that the people working inside the church believe whole-heartedly in the good that they are trying to achieve.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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LronIsgonE_Snap

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Suppressive Person

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Post Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:47 pm

NoSOat10 wrote:Thanks for your thoughts. Very interesting...

The church has been responsible for more pain in my life than I can talk about, but because of my family I can't say that I hope for its demise. I hope for its improvement. I hope that whatever the leadership is or becomes, that there is a realization that the church needs to be altered. When Ron was around he could write new policies to address a changing world. It wasn't static then, and it can't exist if it is static. The policies that currently exist are inadequate to ensure the survival of the group. Human rights abuses and child labor law violations need to stop. Fair game attacks will not stand up to the light of law. Families need to be allowed to stay in communication with each other regardless of their standings within the church. Sea Org members should be free to leave AT WILL.

Regardless of whether what Ron intended was good or bad, I know for sure that the people working inside the church believe whole-heartedly in the good that they are trying to achieve.
KSW and the entire CoS milieu were devised so that staff and public would "whole-heartedly" believe in and relentlessly pursue the Church's (LRH's / DM's) goals. Those who don't nearly all want out or soon will. It would be an understatement to say that there is not much room there for mildly supportive Scientologists.
Enjoy your life today,
For time is fleeting.
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James McGuigan

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Ghost in the Machine

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Post Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:05 pm

For personal experience, and also with events in my since leaving the Church and since leaving home, I have found that sometimes you let yourself get into a situation, slowly by slowly, until one day you finally realise that you are just not that happy with it, and it was not what you signed up for in the first place.

However there is often no easy way out. The cost of simply carrying on and putting up with all the little things is far easier than facing up to it directly. Sometimes the only way out is to quite literally turn your whole life upside down. That shit that was hanging from the ceiling and stinking the place up is now going to have to hit the fan. Its often a long and depressing job having to clean it all up and put your life back in order the way you actually want it, without compromise, but in the end, if the process doesn't kill you, it will be for the best in the long run.

I have gone through some tough time myself (even posted part of life story to the main page). The end result has been that I've been thrown in the deep end on more than one occasion, often without a safety net. When faced with the choice of sink or swim, I've always managed to find a way. Its not given me the luxury of being lazy, its forced me to confront my fears and constantly push myself beyond my comfort zones.

At times it is stressful, even to the point of depression once or twice and then almost burnout, but even then I didn't have the luxury of simply giving up. Sink or swim, so I just have to keep swimming and pushing myself, to keep going.

I have followed the Golden Path of Scientology and emerged out the other end alot stronger, alot more capable and competent, I have learnt a huge amount about myself, and life the universe and everything in the process, and I am still learning.

Slowly I start to see some of the patterns in my life that started in Scientology and I have allowed to repeat outside of it. We all fall in the same trap of repeating those patterns of behaviour that lead us into our messed up situations. But the first step in the process is become aware of them, and to take a good honest look at them, and simply choose to change those patterns.

The universe often manifests what you need, even if it is not always what you want, and especially if what you need is a good kick up the ass. But put it this way, if I had to do it all again, I still wouldn't choose the easy way out. If it was not for everything that has happened in the past, I wouldn't be who I am now today.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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That 70s kid

Non-E

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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:51 am

Post Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:35 am

Re: Hi from another kid

Hi all

noSOat10, I am interested in knowing what the timeframe was that you were sent to the Ranch in Mexico. I too spent some time on a SO ranch, which was just north of Ensenada, in the early 70's. Just wondering if this was the same ranch. Sure sounds like it by your description.

Thanks
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RodKeller

Non-E

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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:34 am

Post Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:37 pm

Re: Hi from another kid

I know you may have been too young at the time, but if you know where the SO ranch is in Mexico, I've been trying to find it on a map.
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That 70s kid

Non-E

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Post Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:19 pm

Re: Hi from another kid

Rod

I'm not as young as my handle might lead you to believe. Perhaps I should have gone with that 60's kid instead. Anyhow, the ranch is just north of Ensenada on Highway 1, the Roserita-Ensenada highway at El Tigre. In fact, we use to call the place Rancho El Tigre. It's official adddres is; El Tigre, carretera Tijuana-Ensenada Km. 89 s/n. The easiest way to spot it on Google Maps/Earth is to follow Highway 1 north out of Ensenada. It branches into Highways 1 and 1D (1D being the coastal highway). Follow Hwy 1 away from the coast for a few miles and you will see circular vineyards and tent style cabanas just to the west of the highway. The main ranch house is just s bit north of these fields and cabanas.

The place was recently purchased by a group which is turning it into a winery/resort. That area has a number of wineries, and has become a bit of a tourist destination for the wine and cheese crowd. The name of the place is Cuatro Cuatro's. Their web site lays out their plans for development of the property. From the aerial photos It looks like the main ranch house may have already been leveled and rebuilt.

I was there from the time it opened as a SO facility in 1971 through late 1972. My father and aunt were dispatched (much to their surprise, having just arrived from Seattle) from California down to the Ranch with an initial group of kids the Sea Org needed a place to house. We spent a great deal of time reclaiming the place from the elements and critters, it appeared to me like it had sat vacant for years before we got there. Were you there at that time?
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RodKeller

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Post Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Hi from another kid

Thank you. I suspect there are other SO bases in Mexico. I've been mapping current and former Scientology locations. Here's the link that you can open in Google Earth in case you're interested, it updates automatically when changes are made.

https://sites.google.com/site/whereissc ... tology.kml

I'm adding links to videos from people who were at the various locations. I need to work on European missions next I think.

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