HOW HAS SCIENTOLOGY IMPROVED OUR PLANET?

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rollette

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Post Mon May 12, 2008 3:12 am

HOW HAS SCIENTOLOGY IMPROVED OUR PLANET?

So this question is mainly for pro-scios, or people who think the COS has helped our planet. YOu know, growing up I've gone to event after event. During these events you are led to believe that the whole planet is improving because of the tech, and whole islamic countries are reading dianetics etc. Then you step into reality and realize its all hyped up propoganda by the church.
Of my whole life in scientology, I have yet to see one thing that the COS has done to help out mankind. WOW, Dianetics is now in 50 languages or what-not. And now the availability to BUY these books is on a global scale. But seriously, please someone tell me one specific thing that the COS has done to help out people on a FREE basis. Something that is making a difference or a change on the planet. Out here in AZ there was a big push for the Volunteer Minister course. All these people were supposed to be trained as volunteer ministers to help out society & volunteer their services... YOu know what?? NOthing has happened except people buying these courses & not helping out with shit. It's like the volunteer minister deal was a quick fad to make more money during 9/11.

So please tell me...And I want examples like scientology contributing to peace efforts across the globe, helping out homeless people, setting up charities for hurricane Katrina victims, tsunami victims etc. ANYTHING!!! I mean at least you get a free copy of the book of mormon or the bible. What do you get for free in scientology without having to sign a billion year contract??
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Grundy

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Post Mon May 12, 2008 3:25 am

Thats an interesting question. The only thing I can say is that if a person is helped, man is helped.

But unfortunately, a balance of helped and hurt might now be so good for them ....
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hidden

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Post Tue May 13, 2008 2:04 am

I am not a member of the Church of Scientology however, I believe that the tech makes you look at life in a different way that makes people able to understand others. And through that understanding the tech helps people.
:D
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anonypanda

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Post Tue May 13, 2008 4:06 pm

hidden wrote:I am not a member of the Church of Scientology however, I believe that the tech makes you look at life in a different way that makes people able to understand others. And through that understanding the tech helps people.
:D


I am not a member of the church though I'd definitely be careful as to what tech I apply that interpretation to. I'm sure there is some helpful stuff there but especially from what I've heard from the ex-OTs and people who learnt some of the advanced or more obscure tech - the interpretation that it helps you think better in the sense that you understand others is quite drastically undermined.
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Orderous

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Post Tue May 13, 2008 4:39 pm

Yet more input from someone who haven't actually been a Scientologist.

The problem about Scientology helping on a grand scale in its current form is the way it needs to be applied; Hypnosis.

All tech and auditing is based on hypnotic techniques to a greater or lesser extent (should have bought the book on hypnosis earlier today). So to help the planet with the current state of Scientology (speaking from a CoS perspective), you would have to hypnotize the planet. This just isn't possible, because someone will realize that something is very wrong, not everyone is equally simple to hypnotize. In addition to this, much of the CoS Scientology is based around removing ideas, and construct a single line of thought and understanding. Which once again leads to someone understanding that something is very wrong (as Anonymous has for a much smaller scale).

However, should Scientology revert back to its originally planned self help form, I do see it as being potentially helpful in reaching a more zen like state in your daily life for quite a bit of the population in the western hemisphere who loves this kind of stuff.

As for the volunteer ministries, they fail the minute you realize that their version of medical service and helping with disease is a touch assist. Sorry guys, as someone with a medical based education I really disilike any and all "understanding" Scientology has about "helping" people with medical issues.
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Grundy

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Post Tue May 13, 2008 5:03 pm

I don't actually agree with that.

In mosts practices of Scn, you are required to have enough to sleep and eat, you stay awake. Questions are asked. Answers given. Acknowledgement. That's it.

The concentration of overts withholds, the abuses of staff, etc, etc, etc - the stuff that hubbard came up with after he started having failures - that is where the problem is.
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James McGuigan

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Post Thu May 15, 2008 8:02 pm

After the two recent natural disasters in Burma and China, the Volunteer Ministers sent out a call to action to get a number of Scientologists to drop everything in their day to day lives, and fly off to Burma and China to help those suffering as Volunteer Ministers.

So far Burma has not been accepting foreign aid workers, which has made the crisis even worse.

While I do agree that everything that can be done, should be done to help, and I do hope the VMs will be able to achieve something, I am a little sceptical as to how much practical help they will be. given the scale of the disasters, and the very practical needs of the people affected (ie food, water, clothing, housing).
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hidden

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Post Mon May 19, 2008 5:19 pm

anonypanda wrote:
hidden wrote:I am not a member of the Church of Scientology however, I believe that the tech makes you look at life in a different way that makes people able to understand others. And through that understanding the tech helps people.
:D


I am not a member of the church though I'd definitely be careful as to what tech I apply that interpretation to. I'm sure there is some helpful stuff there but especially from what I've heard from the ex-OTs and people who learnt some of the advanced or more obscure tech - the interpretation that it helps you think better in the sense that you understand others is quite drastically undermined.


Sure, like all good things they end up being torn apart by people like Miscavige who are in it for nothing but to gain money.
But then there are people who honestly care about Scientology and making it better for Scientologist and others as well.
“You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so."
~L. Ron Hubbard

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TheWiseOne

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Post Mon May 19, 2008 7:48 pm

Well, working in Customer Service was killing me. So much disrespect and abuse on the job from strangers made me feel worthless and like truly killing myself. After this I started feeling really down all the time. I couldn't even enjoy the moment when I was in it. I was at Six Flags, Knotts and Disneyland, a few times with my friends, and I wasn't enjoying the moment, I was just thinking about the negative things, and asking myself why I had to feel so depressed and anxious about things that were not taking place. I started acting depressed all the time, and my bf noticed and he told me to please be happy otherwise I would die early and me being down was gonna make him be down too. I was thinking about taking drugs but I looked up stories on the net from people who are actually on them and I didn't like what I heard. I constantly had to force myself to smile. I just wanted to be genuinely happy. Well, I got a taste of Freezone auditing one day, shortly after watching that Beginners guide to L.Ron video, and after finishing the process I felt the greatest feeling of serenity I have ever felt. I genuinely felt so good that it is almost impossible to describe the feeling. But I felt really light and genuine happiness. I sort of felt like when I was a little kid and I could be genuinely happy and not sweat the small stuff. I felt super good for around 3 days after. I think it helped me by making me feel happy inside and more aware of my surrounding because I was not so stuck in my negative thoughts. Also, the terrible anxiety and depression that I had was really easy for other people to sense and it sort of got to them. Like I was able to key people in cause my negative emotion could easily impinge on them. I think that it was a Godsend, it came to me at the right time. If you could only understand how down I was before, it was a far cry from what I had been experiencing.
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hidden

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Post Sun May 25, 2008 8:50 am

Im glad that freezone was able to help you
n.n
“You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so."
~L. Ron Hubbard

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Sharone Stainforth

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Post Tue May 27, 2008 12:12 am

So please tell me...And I want examples like scientology contributing to peace efforts across the globe, helping out homeless people, setting up charities for hurricane Katrina victims, tsunami victims etc. ANYTHING!!! I mean at least you get a free copy of the book of mormon or the bible. What do you get for free in scientology without having to sign a billion year contract??

From what i can see the only thing you get for free in Scientology is a Free Stress Test.Looking at the people i have seen offering these Stress tests, they are the ones that need the stress tests.

After what happened to that poor girl in Norway, it would appear that the Free Stress Test is in itself an extremely dangerous test to do if a person is feeling stressed out to start with, along with the "we can help you handle that" and the hard sell to sell books and get people on courses, it is enough to put people under further stress.

At St.Hill in the 60s i think most people who joined Scientology genuinely wanted to make the world a better place and to help their fellow men and women. There were some great people amongst them.

When my Dad and i first joined the Ship everyone helped one another and again there were some really good people.I'm not sure at what point that changed ,but it did change,or it had been there all along but hadn't become apparent.I think the latter, due to Hubbards involvement with Crowley. There is no mistaking that Hubbard fled to the sea and set up the Sea Org in order to flee. He was able to get on with his plans for world domination without too much scrutiny from his "enemies". From early 1968 it was apparent to me that people were not being helped by Scientology but were being harmed,as time went on it got worse.

What i find really sad is that Scientologists still think today they are helping people. A heavily indoctrinated Scientologist cannot see that a touch assist does not work,that reading the "way to happiness" booklet when you have just lost your home and everything you own is going to make you feel oh so much better. It is all a delusion.Showing kindness under false pretenses. Converting people to Scientology,especially the Sea Org is very detrimental to ones health.

When you join the Sea Org, you do in fact sign a billion year contract, and nothing is free. You have to work extremely long hours,for very little pay,living in virtual poverty. Unless you already have money, working your way up the Scientology bridge is almost impossible.

In my opinion if the Tech was so damned good, as Jason Beghe says why are OTs having migraines. I remember reading Hana Eltringhams' affidavit and she kept getting really bad migraines too. If the Tech can't cure people of migraines what chance does it have of curing anything else.
I even saw L. Ron Hubbard in his bunk once ill,perhaps he was experimenting, i'm pretty sure he had a headache,like in a bad hangover.
No amount of touch assist would have helped him,come to think of it, what did the "way to happiness" do for him either in the end? Not a lot.

Its all quackery.
the man who"wanted" to rule the world was a science fiction writer, who lived out his fantasies in real life.Some body some day will say this is illegal. It won't come soon enough.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WzE9Fzbrx3w
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Sharone Stainforth

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Post Tue May 27, 2008 12:16 am

PS: As far as i can see Scientology has done absolutely nothing to improve our Planet. On the other hand it has done much in the way of hurting earths inhabitants.
the man who"wanted" to rule the world was a science fiction writer, who lived out his fantasies in real life.Some body some day will say this is illegal. It won't come soon enough.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WzE9Fzbrx3w
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Justin Chaos

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Post Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:50 pm

Scientologists are the weakest hominids (spiritually, mentally, and physically) since the beginning of recorded time. Moreover, the fear and paranoia among the believers are palpable even to the most casual observer; as a group, Scientologists represent the least enlightened or evolved of any recognized sect in the history of mankind.
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:47 pm

I partially agree with hidden on this topic. To some extent, LRH came up with a few interesting ideas and theories, and like Freuds ideas, just because they are interesting doesn't mean they're applicable and can withstand the scrutiny of empiciral testing.

I do thing that most Scientologists are good people who truly want to help, but thay have been misled by many of the destructive ways in which LRHs theories are "applied to life". The believe in a tech that doesnt work, and their faith is rock hard.

As an organization, Scientology hasn't done any good whatsoever. Sure, there are by far worse groups out there. but Scientology is one organization that should not be allowed to flourish in our "civil" and "industrialized" society.
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alex

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:17 am

Justin Chaos wrote:Scientologists are the weakest hominids (spiritually, mentally, and physically) since the beginning of recorded time. Moreover, the fear and paranoia among the believers are palpable even to the most casual observer; as a group, Scientologists represent the least enlightened or evolved of any recognized sect in the history of mankind.


I love your over the top hyperbole. Your statments above is the same kind of Public Relations hype that the church specializes in, except from the opposite viewpoint.

Now I am not trying to pick on you, just using it for a springboard for my comment. You are welcome to your observations and opinion.

I seem to be one of the few avowed scientologists here, at least "still in good standing" variety. I am on my basics at the moment, studying the foundations of scientology.

What strikes me in my studies is how far the church has moved from the basic philosophy that is derived from.

One thing I see as a problem is that the church uses the policy of how to run an organization as a substitute for more broad principles. The policy should be a subordinate thing, and more basic ideals should be the motivating influence. The opposite is the case, and this is a perversion. Policy has become dogma, while greater principles have been forgot.

http://www.scientology.org/world/worlde ... /creed.htm is an example of what I believe and I think is good general foundational material for being a scientologist. If you took the church's name off it, few would object to it. But it seems it is not what the church practices.

So back to the topic. What has scientology given the world? Words and ideas. That is, the philosophy of scientology, not the church, has given the world those concepts, THAT GOT SO MANY OF US IN AND WERE REASON TO STAY IN AND WORK AT IT SO LONG.

So many people have had contact with the ideas of scientology, either directly or indirectly, and the ideas inspire other ideas and actions. Yes it is true that many of the ideas were not altogether new, but in scientology, a broad net was thrown over the wisdom of the ages and then is was distilled into the language and format that fit the times. I cant read the vedas in sanskrit, or hope to glean the gems out of it, nor the works of crowley, although I recognize his genius. Hubbard and his helpers did it for me though.

I think that early dianetics and scientology broke open new ways of thinking. After a time though, the ideas became less important than just the survival and growth of the organization, and then policy became the "ideas", moving from the subordinate "tool" function to some sort of holy writ.

And now the church is on a fanatical push for perfection, when its own teachings say perfection is not obtainable. Zealotry and fanaticism have replaced wisdom and the ability to easily experience the effects others cause.

We of the church turn from communication, our basic principle, and from confront, its companion. And perhaps a lesson about this is in the works. I see it as swings from one extreme to the other, the direction reversing inevitable.

What the scientology gave the world is lost in the noise of what the Church of scientology has done with the gift is started with.

Sorry Justin, no conflict meant, but just using you as a springboard to a soap box.

thanks

alex (who steps down off the flimsy box, hoping no rotten tomatoes fly his way...._
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought."

-- Buddha (563-483 BC), Siddhartha Gautama
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James McGuigan

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:40 am

One of the underlying issues, I have seenas a pattern of though and behaviour, with the Scientology and the Church and the teachings of LRH, is a tendency to oversimplify things into presumed fundementals, then to take these fundamentals as absolutes and reject other explinations.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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alex

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:46 pm

James McGuigan wrote:One of the underlying issues, I have seenas a pattern of though and behaviour, with the Scientology and the Church and the teachings of LRH, is a tendency to oversimplify things into presumed fundementals, then to take these fundamentals as absolutes and reject other explinations.


But if they are truly fundemental, are they not absolute? You say presumed, but for many scientologists these fundementals have stood the test of experience.

It always seems to boil down to the "Its what I experience so its true for me" arguement....

True fundementals would be immutable. The test is life.

Would you agree with that?

(not saying that there are many who dont test their beliefs....)

alex
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought."

-- Buddha (563-483 BC), Siddhartha Gautama
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Public Clammer

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:18 pm

A story my Grandmother user to tell...

Goes like this:

Two women (perhaps church ladies) were talking and one says:

"My goodness Myrtle, I believe you would have something good to say about the devil himself!" :lol:

Myrtle's reply:

"Well, Harriet, you have to admit that he is a very industrious body." :twisted:

EOS (end of story)

If ya catch me meaning, sir...
The Public Clammer!
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Justin Chaos

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Post Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:31 pm

I've, illegally, downloaded Dianetics and some other stuff, just for the sake of doing it, as well I downloaded "the profit"...it's crap but I watched it only because the cult doesn't want me to, anyway...Dianetics which could be considered by scientologists as one of the many LRH's gifts to the world on his attempt not only to improve, but to save the planet is something, in a way, impressive... The first thing you notice about this extremely bizarrely written book is that it is spectacularly dull.

L. Ron Hubbard promises, in this seemingly endless treatise, that his "modern science of mental health" will cure everything from schizophrenia to arthritis, claims for which he presents no credible evidence whatsoever -- unless you consider merely insisting that you've got evidence to be the same thing as offering it. But I am here to testify that "Dianetics" is a phenomenal remedy for at least one widespread affliction: insomnia

Certain motifs keep recurring with a compulsive regularity that suggests Hubbard himself was anything but clear of past traumas. Eventually, these recurring images and examples gel into a sad and scary narrative that must have had particular power for Hubbard, since it keeps cropping up throughout the book.
It would never cease to amaze me ho desperate, vulberable, or plain stupid someone has to be, to take any of this utter rubbish into consideration.
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James McGuigan

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Post Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:11 am

alex wrote:But if they are truly fundemental, are they not absolute? You say presumed, but for many scientologists these fundementals have stood the test of experience.

It always seems to boil down to the "Its what I experience so its true for me" arguement....

True fundementals would be immutable. The test is life.

Would you agree with that?

(not saying that there are many who dont test their beliefs....)

alex


True fundementals would be immutable, but even if you have them correctly defined, you must also understand the emergent properties that are created within a system and also avoid the trap of "all I have is a hammer thus every problem is a nail".

But in finding those fundamentals, you must seperate corrilation from causation. That just because two events happen at the same time, that one causes the other.

Another common trap is to choose a few well placed examples where there theory seems to fit, but without challenging it to situations where it seems far less applicable, and avoiding the mental gymnastics involved with interperting a situation to fit a theory, rather than adapting the theory according to the available evidence.

Personally, I accept that everything I believe currently could be wrong, that sometime down the line I will see things from another viewpoint. But that it would be conter productive to constantly second guess myself with lack of absolute certianty, so I am fairly sure on what I think I know now at this point in time, and work on that basis. Should I find it wrong or more likely incomplete, then I will work on that data at that point.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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