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The Chief

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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:00 am

Well the problem is that Justin is like many, Theo. I am doing my best to see any redeeming qualities in Scientology but I can't personally see any besides it being of personal benefit to someone who only knew Scientology. It does a terrible job of explaining basic concepts. It abuses scientific and religious terminology to give credability to what is essentially a pseudoscience. I try to be more understanding though.

I would also give some serious thought to researching Mr Hubbard as well, theo. You will realise rather quickly that he was a disgusting example of a human being, the very anti-thesis of what you aspire to be. Sorry if that is offensive to you, but it is completely true. I've not been antagonistic to this point, afterall, but there are some things that cannot be glossed over. Hubbard was a horrible man.
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theo

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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:36 am

The Chief wrote:Well the problem is that Justin is like many, Theo. I am doing my best to see any redeeming qualities in Scientology but I can't personally see any besides it being of personal benefit to someone who only knew Scientology. It does a terrible job of explaining basic concepts. It abuses scientific and religious terminology to give credability to what is essentially a pseudoscience. I try to be more understanding though.

I would also give some serious thought to researching Mr Hubbard as well, theo. You will realise rather quickly that he was a disgusting example of a human being, the very anti-thesis of what you aspire to be. Sorry if that is offensive to you, but it is completely true. I've not been antagonistic to this point, afterall, but there are some things that cannot be glossed over. Hubbard was a horrible man.


Chief hi, I owe you an answer from a previous post of yours. It was rather deep waters though and I couldn't just answer it like that. This is why I never posted anything on it.

Now, on this. I don't mind people being antagonistic but to provide some data and references on what they base their antagonism on. Even if Hubbard was a horrible man I can tell you I know what he left as a tech behind. After all you have to be terrible to survive on Earth and make something that is worth. The Christian world where everybody turns the other cheek and that "full of love" society of ours is just fake and a lie. So just being "horrible" doesn't mean one wasn't effective. I don't mean that one should become like Bush and be that horrible and that "effective". The effects of Bush and the lobby behind globalization can be seen all over the world. I hear in the news there are food problems in some countries. So one can be horrible and ineffective (bad effects or no effects). That cannot be forgiven. I would like to see activists be horrible against Bush, even the Anonymous guys. That would be a worthwhile campaign.

As to Hubbard research all you want. But if there is something worth researching is the technology itself. Talk to you later I am going to work.
Thanks
Theo
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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gogogadget

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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:55 pm

Theo -- There is nothing to research, the tech has never been researched. It is unresearchable because there is no testable hypothesis for the tech.

LRH supposedly tested this stuff on himself, then somehow came to the conclusion that the images he may or may not have seen and the experience he may or may not have had would universally benefit every human every where. Nevermind that he may have been having a series of strokes, or psychotic episodes, or gee, perhaps he was lying. There is nothing here for me to trust.

Some people claim to have positive experiences with the "tech", some have had terrible or at least not very useful experiences with the tech. So we know that the claim that the tech is universally beneficial is false.

Maybe you're suggesting that we join the Church, or submit to an unproven diagnostic technique, or churn through the mountains of disjointed and poorly reasoned text, because apparently that is the only research anyone can do that counts for you.

I wouldn't buy a car from someone under those circumstances, much less choose a spiritual path.

I respect your ability to make choices for yourself, and I think that being able to make choices without force is the basis for human dignity and human liberty. But with choice comes the responsibility to face criticism, which you are doing with admirable good will. The Church however, hasn't chosen to do face criticism and so it can't be taken seriously. It is an enemy of human diginity and increasingly we see a stupid one at that.
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:36 am

gogogadget wrote:Theo -- There is nothing to research, the tech has never been researched. It is unresearchable because there is no testable hypothesis for the tech.

LRH supposedly tested this stuff on himself, then somehow came to the conclusion that the images he may or may not have seen and the experience he may or may not have had would universally benefit every human every where. Nevermind that he may have been having a series of strokes, or psychotic episodes, or gee, perhaps he was lying. There is nothing here for me to trust.

Some people claim to have positive experiences with the "tech", some have had terrible or at least not very useful experiences with the tech. So we know that the claim that the tech is universally beneficial is false.

Maybe you're suggesting that we join the Church, or submit to an unproven diagnostic technique, or churn through the mountains of disjointed and poorly reasoned text, because apparently that is the only research anyone can do that counts for you.

I wouldn't buy a car from someone under those circumstances, much less choose a spiritual path.

I respect your ability to make choices for yourself, and I think that being able to make choices without force is the basis for human dignity and human liberty. But with choice comes the responsibility to face criticism, which you are doing with admirable good will. The Church however, hasn't chosen to do face criticism and so it can't be taken seriously. It is an enemy of human diginity and increasingly we see a stupid one at that.


gogogadget, pity I lost my post. Thought I had posted it and then it got lost. But maybe you are lucky. No much talking from me.

In essence what I was saying is: don't believe one thing from Scientologists. They are crooks. Don't (ever, ever) read one page of a Scientology book. Just don't. Don't get near any auditor ever. Just don't. You are right. These guys are nuts!!

I will of course explain to you in another message since I lost some time now. It may come to you as ironic. No, it isn't. "Gogogadget, from here on, even if you wanted which you don't, you are forbidden to ever, ever have a look at any Scientology writings read or study anything of that crap or come closer than 3 meters to a Scientology auditor and exchange words with such a person. Ever."

I lost my post. I thought it was a good one. Now it comes a bit out of context but anyway the point is that you are cutting your own communication lines. You wish to do it. OK. But you haven't read the Philadelfia Doctorate Course (PDCs) much less understood it, so please, please, please don't speak about "disjoined and poorly reasoned texts" because probably you have read some kindergarden stuff from Scientology and you thought that was IT. No my friend. That wasn't IT. There is much more to kindergarden stuff in Scientology. There is stuff to blow one mind. I said that the Matrix is just soap opera compared to what's really happening in the world. But it sounds so incredible nobody believes it. And of course Homo Sheep-iens is not the exception here. His game is to comform. That's why you get Scientology like that today. Sounds no different than the American Goverment. It's different but sounds the same thing.

So they are going to pay for their crimes against people, the officers of Scientology, but you and me don't need a church. You don't need a church for a via. However, if you don't think that sh.t is happening and spirits do have a hard time on this planet, then go on, carry on, I will see you another place, another time. If you think that a spirit is a species under the threat of extinction then we are tracking. I have no interest to push Scientology down people's throat. It never worked and it won't work. So I tell them to not do it. It's a cult, it's a fake thing, it's a pseudo-science. Ha,ha. I go on to the next guy who wants to know more about it, honestly and without any bias.

I didn't mean to be bad, I am just unhappy I lost my post which was much more elaborate for you. Well, sh.t happens as we said. And it will always happen on this particular subject, the subject of WHO WE REALLY ARE, as there are beings who would never want us to find our really. Unbelievable, conspiracy type of thinking, well, however you want to put it , that stuff will never be taught in any university. And if it's going to be one day, it will be maimed stuff, just kindergarden stuff to chew our thumbs on. The real stuff will be fought against, altered, maligned and everything you want. Homo Sheep-iens has no permission to such stuff. "Access Phohibited. Keep on eating your grass!!!"

The Internet is the new revolutionary step that the suppressives on this planet never expected to happen. It's a revolution in communication. Me and you can communicate, even through a low level of communication means, which is words and languages and which has quite some liabilities. Only those who are masters of the symbol language and who know some actual truths can really relay a message that is worthwhile paying attention to. And the Homo Sheep-iens stops being Sleepiens and wakes up. Anyone will wake up to an honest voice. Anyone of us is kind enough and hurt enough and sane enough to want some kind and honest words from someone. Only the really crazy guys will persecute someone who speaks from his heart and speaks some truth. However, remember that a Spirit failed against a robot society run on meat bodies. The fight was lost in the past. So the spirit has to awaken others equal or even superior to him. That and only that will have an effect. Look at Anonymous and how many were awakened to the call through the Internet. They now form a kind of group with some common purpose. It's the same for Scientology. A group of people who got together under some common policy and knowledge and with a common purpose. The fact that they were taken over makes them look very estranged and mysterious. Puts them out of communication with the world. And people want to know what is going on anywhere in anything. That's what's going on. I wish they move from step A to step B and start communicating more openly and with more understanding for people. They are no saints, they are not superhumans, they are not inhumans. They are part of this world and they know better than shut up their mouths when they should be talking with people. Even if those people are critical to Scientology. So what? If you know your stuff, you can always do some "mental arts" (like in martian arts). It's called mental boxing, ha,ha. You know back then when thetans (spirits, I bet you know the word) didn't have bodies, they used to do glare fights. They were fighting with glares. (not with meat eyes but through beams). Now we fight with ideas, which is less hurting for sure. I wouldn't want to get a high frequency beam in my space. So, I use low frequency energy, like words, kindergarden stuff, that don't hurt, and I am still playing these mental arts game. I enjoy it actually with you guys. I think the game has its rules, we all know a bit and we have teams here: atheists, Anonymous guys, Scientology guys, Freezone guys, Church of Scientology guys, Martians (ha,ha) you name it. Everybody can play this game called "Mental Arts" like Martian Arts. But the motions are different. And the audience can see who is really following the rules of the game and who wins. Mental Arts Games Festival. "Anonymous v. Scientology" Round 1. "Gogogadget v. Theo" Round 3. Ha, ha. It's just a game and a polite one. It's not just "I'll shoot you down if you don't agree with me". It's much more intellectual one. That's why "Mental Arts", ha,ha.

So up to you for the next round. Ha,ha. Boy, I am out of my mind. All I wanted to do with this Mental Arts Tournament here in ex Scientology Kids was to say to Anonymous people that Scientology as a philosophy ain't bad at all. Some oughta read some if they haven't. It's the Church and primarily the officers of it that have sold Scientology to the suppressives of the world, and their minions like the president of the United States like most presidents of most countries these days. If Anonymous could do something about that Situation then I would take my hat off to them. But that's really a Situation. "Homo Sheepiens v. Bush & Co." Ha,ha. That's going to be quite a match. They need some players there.

OK, guys, that's it for my movement, and that's it from the Arena of Mental Sports. "Scientology v. Anonymous" keeps going. Anyone else?
Thanks
Theo
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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Justin Chaos

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:26 am

You should start your own religion THEO SISMANIDES...that's where the money is
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:15 pm

Justin Chaos wrote:You should start your own religion THEO SISMANIDES...that's where the money is


Justin Chaos, is that all you got from my postings? .... money? I am sorry but I now have the right to re-phrase your name as... Just In Chaos.
:o
Theo
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Justin Chaos

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:31 pm

Nah...I don't get much from your posts, I can't be bothered to read all that mate...may be in a severe chase of insomnia.

I was just quoting LRH on the money part, the rest is just what I get from a quick overview over the 4 lines I get to read of your posts before I start yawning badly.

PS:Just In Chaos, indeed is exactly the reason why i use this nick, how many years of auditing took you to get that by yourself???
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Tru2form

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:34 pm

Awwww... you guys are cute.

You're like, lightly slapping each other to death.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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Justin Chaos

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:40 pm

Killing me softly
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:53 pm

Justin Chaos wrote:Nah...I don't get much from your posts, I can't be bothered to read all that mate...may be in a severe chase of insomnia.

I was just quoting LRH on the money part, the rest is just what I get from a quick overview over the 4 lines I get to read of your posts before I start yawning badly.

PS:Just In Chaos, indeed is exactly the reason why i use this nick, how many years of auditing took you to get that by yourself???


4 lines? !! Man, you definitely wouldn't qualify for a member of my religion. Just 4 lines...? For God's sake!! You would just unsettle the whole thing... You would spoil all the rest... Tststsss...

Anyway I'll try and make a simpler version for yaa! How about that? Will that work? I'll try to pull you out Mate! Hung in there!! The cavalry is coming!!

Ladies and Gentlemen in the next issue... "Religion simplified" (or Religion for Dummies but that doesn't sound so sellable, does it?) Special acknowledgment to Just in Chaos who made that possible for Mankind. (Hung in there Mate! We'll pull you out.) Ladies and Gentlemen, stay tuned. (Thanks Justin, I am on my way to making that money, remember? After all there is a price for everyone. Mate you were again right).
Thanks
Theo
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Justin Chaos

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:11 pm

Now you're talking mate...now you're talking
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:45 pm

Justin Chaos wrote:Now you're talking mate...now you're talking


Hey, there we go. We got an Agreement point. Hurray!!! So, when are we launching the project, mate? :D
(hey, by the way isn't that Australian? "Mate". Australian. Also called "down under" if I am not mistaken.
Thanks
Theo
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Anonymuzs

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Post Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:10 am

I rarely post in here considering how anti sci I am, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I have read the material, including the OT levels, L rundowns, Superpower TR's (yeah, wtf) and even the base material.

The basic principles of scientology are purely based on early psychology work, which would be ironic if it wasn't so obvious. Most people could see that pretty quick but KSW keeps people too busy, too cautious and too tired to do anything but KSW.

I can admit that some of the earlier material can be useful for people that lack in certain areas. It can really Jackhammer an effective routine into someone's brain, which could help many people if applied correctly. The problem is however, that KSW itself is incorrect and damaging in the long term unless you are capable of 9000% always applying KSW to it's fullest. Of course, problems (RPF, being downstat, etc) arise when failure to do so happens, whether through fault of your own or not.

The "religious" aspect of scientology is also plagiarized from pretty much everything+bad star trek. It is used as a cloak, a shield, defense from persecution and a way to attack critics by citing religious hatred. When L.Ron himself said they were only using religion for taxes and protection that arguement loses any weight in my book.

The Idea of a spirit, or thetan or soul or whatever you want to call it isn't a unique one, every religion ever invented anywhere ever has had some view on the spirit, some stranger then others. Believing your soul is under attack by thousands (millions?) of tiny alien souls however, is just bullshit to me. People may believe what they want, but as a free human being, I have the right to believe it is full of shit, especially when it comes at a price tag of around 379,000$US at last estimate several years ago.

Now add in the front groups, the lawyers, the stories of abuse and harassment, lawsuits and threats, deceit coercion and manipulation that have been the very core of scientology as soon as it was capable and most people would have to tell themselves that something is wrong over in Sci land.

And all this is BUILT IN, it's part of KSW, and if you aren't KSW you aren't gonna have a chance of being upstat and then you may have to start paying for sec checks from bob. Bob is a friend and a nice guy, but if he doesn't discover your crime, he won't be KSW and he may get sec checked and on and on.

I could go on, one of the reasons I protest Scientology is because it is such a large and complicated organization. They spend tens of millions hiding the truth from the public, but if this is the image we get from just the information that has been leaked, the grand scope and reality of it must be all the more frightening.

All the power to you if you find something there that works, but I say that you could have found that elsewhere for cheaper (i.e free)


*Edit* Wow, that sounds harsh. Don't take it that way please =D. I have no hate on scientologists or people that it helped, I do see how the early stuff can help people but the whole thing is designed to suck them in, take their money and leave them slaves to the owners of scientology. You would need to cut out like 85% of everything scientology to get something truly beneficial to the human race out of it. I'm starting to criticize again so i'm gonna stop now.
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gogogadget

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Post Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:57 am

I've heard some bits from the PDC, and it was... disjointed. Sorry. He made assertions and he didn't really back them up. Perhaps if one were to devote hours to it a pattern would emerge. But I'm not willing to do that, just like I'm not willing to read the Upanishads, though they are probably quite lovely.

Theo, perhaps you could point to some independent research that validates LRH's assertions about, say, the electrical charge of body thetans. Is there such documentary evidence?
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theo

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Post Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:29 am

gogogadget wrote:I've heard some bits from the PDC, and it was... disjointed. Sorry. He made assertions and he didn't really back them up. Perhaps if one were to devote hours to it a pattern would emerge. But I'm not willing to do that, just like I'm not willing to read the Upanishads, though they are probably quite lovely.

Theo, perhaps you could point to some independent research that validates LRH's assertions about, say, the electrical charge of body thetans. Is there such documentary evidence?


Thanks, that's an interesting topic. Electrical charge of a thetan. You see on body thetans, I've read some stuff, but I have no much to say on that. No personal experience or such. But I can research and see about the electrical charge of thetans. I can give you texts from LRH on that and some independent research. Of course I will Google it (electrical charge spirit) and see what I get. Got to go do some work now.
Theo
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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The Chief

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Post Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:05 pm

I wouldn't believe a damn thing Hubbard said, Theo. The man was a crackpot and speaking as an actual physicist, had little to no idea of what makes up the universe.

Can I suggest an alternate route? A man who actually did know what he was talking about but who could see spirituality in the universe?

http://www.carlsagan.com/

Compared to Sagan, Hubbard's disjointed worthless ramblings are a joke :) Compared to nearly anyone, Hubbard is a joke.

Please do me a favour and read Sagan's works. I've already read through Hubbard's, I have been reading Hubbard's works (despite my better judgement) for the years I have been involved in learning about and understanding what makes the cult of Scientology tick. I only ask you do the same.
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theo

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Post Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:07 am

The Chief wrote:I wouldn't believe a damn thing Hubbard said, Theo. The man was a crackpot and speaking as an actual physicist, had little to no idea of what makes up the universe.

Can I suggest an alternate route? A man who actually did know what he was talking about but who could see spirituality in the universe?

http://www.carlsagan.com/

Compared to Sagan, Hubbard's disjointed worthless ramblings are a joke :) Compared to nearly anyone, Hubbard is a joke.

Please do me a favour and read Sagan's works. I've already read through Hubbard's, I have been reading Hubbard's works (despite my better judgement) for the years I have been involved in learning about and understanding what makes the cult of Scientology tick. I only ask you do the same.


Chief hi,

I have read a bit of Carl Sagan. I find it a wonderful idea to read again and I will. Physics is a key to understanding higher concepts in the Universe.

However, since you' ve already read through Hubbard's works I will do some check out on you. I will keep that simple since too much complexitity does not help on this site.

So question number 1. What is the definition of space according to physics and do you happen to know what is the definition of space in Scientology?

I hope you don't mind that since all other derogatory words and discussions don't lead to anything. Let's see how do we define some basic elements and factors.

Thanks
Theo
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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The Chief

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Post Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:07 am

Space is a viewpoint of dimension by Hubbard's terms, in the simplest possible form. This is consistant with his anthrocentric principle of MEST.

In physics, it can mean both an absence of matter or a region in which physical laws can be applied in whatever form. The physical concept of a limit or a boundary. The irony is that space really is not simple to define at all because first of all you have to consider what is contained in the space and what might actually be considered to be filled space is also empty space, with reference given to the model of the atom.

In addition, what we might consider to be vacuum (Outer Space itself) is actually a terse plasma awash with charged particles and high energy photons.
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hidden

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Post Sat May 10, 2008 5:09 am

AnonymousID-V42B wrote:Welcome theo.

And btw, here's the Anonymous Organizational Chart.

Image

(Sorry, couldn't help myself, it's just so much fun to post this thing.)

thats kinda funny :D
“You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so."
~L. Ron Hubbard

International Freezone Association
http://internationalfreezone.net/
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Justin Chaos

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Post Sat May 10, 2008 10:22 am

Hilarious
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