For new people regarding Dre

Personally I would like you to keep in mind a special saying a bit more when considering Scientology, one that I've shown you before;

"All power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Scientologists are not bad people, but scientology caters to the corruptable, the ones that enjoy being a sadistic bossy fuckwad. It even encourages them. And the good points of scientology DO NOT outweigh the bad, it's a corrputed system that corrupts. (Simply read through the tonescale and you'll see what I'm talking about.)

Here's a quote for you.

"He who fights monsters should take care that he does not become a monster. When you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes back at you."

Being against Scientology in its totality has as much potential to corrupt as Scientology itself. I have seen so many critics who dehumanize Scientologists, label them "clams", call those who disagree "clam-lovers" or some equivalent, and in general treat people like dirt that I want to throw up. Is there not a better way to act? Is it a sin to hope people will take seriously the following words:

"We of the Church believe:

That all men of whatever race, color, or creed were created with equal rights;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own religious practices and their performance;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own lives;

That all men have inalienable rights to their sanity;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own defense;

That all men have inalienable rights to conceive, choose, assist or support their own organizations, churches and governments;

That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others;

That all men have inalienable rights to the creation of their own kind;

That the souls of men have the rights of men;

That the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in non-religious fields;

And that no agency less than God has the power to suspend or set aside these rights, overtly or covertly.

And we of the Church believe:

That man is basically good;

That he is seeking to survive;

That his survival depends upon himself and upon his fellows and his attainment of brotherhood with the universe.

And we of the Church believe that the laws of God forbid man:

To destroy his own kind;

To destroy the sanity of another;

To destroy or enslave another's soul;

To destroy or reduce the survival of one's companions or one's group.

And we of the Church believe that the spirit can be saved and that the spirit alone may save or heal the body."

I know the CoS is not following this creed I took off their site. I deplore them for such hypocrisy. And yet I do recognize that some people follow the creed. I hope their numbers will grow. I pray they will be accepted and allowed the right to exist. Why am I wrong in doing this?

If history proves you right, and Scientology is destroyed by its own mistakes the way the USSR was, or put down the way apartheid and Nazism were, I will accept your view as correct. But that ain't happening, and I have friends I want to get along with. So that is why I hold the view I do.

Seriously guys? Oy.

Look, DRE isn't running the board or whatnot. Some of what he says has some good points, some of it doesn't--like all of us. At least he's consistently polite to everyone in voicing his ideas.


Nothing in the bylaws says you have to hate everything about Scn to be here.
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DRE, I do want to point out that even the creed has some iffy bits in it:

"That the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion or condoned in non-religious fields; "

Code for, "No psychs."


"To destroy or reduce the survival of one's companions or one's group"
Code for, "You're making yourself sick, so you're dead weight on the group, so bye-bye."

I believe their "Human Rights" website also contains the gem of the Right to Copyright....mmm-hmmm.


The creed has some good bits, although those are pretty much ripped off from other religions or the Bill of Rights. Doesn't make them less good, but still.

I agree with those codes now that you've explained them, speckledtrout. Thank you. Those bits troubled me too. I'm in full agreement with the rest of the creed, pretty much.

[Grundy]