Critics are never hateful towards Scientologists?

Moderator: doubleVee

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DRE

OTIII

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Post Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:31 pm

Critics are never hateful towards Scientologists?

Read these links and see if you can say that again.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/board/flat/129942648

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000129/board/flat/129132516

Observe something in these threads- I am not a Scientologist and yet I am treated as one just because I like to take a stance that sympathizes with the general public in the church. I am also treated with shame, hostility, and fear by people who don't even know me. I agree the CoS should be subject to criticism and it is right to want to distance yourself from its problems and help those inside. However, there are some extremes to which none should go. I thank everyone here for not approaching those extremes as of this point in time that I have observed.
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Anonymous9104

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Critics are never hateful towards Scientologists?

I am not going to read it all, as I believe what you say, but you sure find the longest possible way to say it as though this were all there was to do in your life... that is sad.

Listen Dre, why are you surprised that people act like this when you are all on scientology's d*@K?

You are WAY to tolerant, as people have pointed out here.

You DUMBFOUND me with your .... ___________ (to put it NICELY, I'll say 'naivatte".
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DRE

OTIII

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:19 am

I'm not surprised, Anon9104. Not anymore.

Forgive me for seeing tolerance as a virtue. And if you would actually read my posts rather than put on your blinders, you would see I am anything but naive.
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Iknowtoomuch

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:02 am

I don't know of anyone that ever said that.
Oh you are definately naive. No doubt about it. You leave huge holes of logic in your defense of Scientology.
Just the fact you think Scientology will or even could reform shows your naive.
"Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe. But I don't believe that anybody has a right to trick anybody, to hurt anybody, to harm some body, for their own purposes." - Jason Beghe
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gogogadget

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:39 am

DRE, my god, I have bit my tongue over and over reading your posts, and Jesus, criminal enterprises do not get a benefit of the doubt. Victims to a certain extent do, sure. But my god, the church is based on A LIE. Whether or not someone may or may not have benefitted for pseudo-scientific, pseudo-hog shiite is a matter of luck and personal circumstance. People who bet with mob bookies can make money occasionally, and some Nazi probably benefitted from their association with the Reich, but goddamn, that does NOT mean we can let those organizations off the hook. If a thug is well meaning, that does not release them from consequences of their association. If, on the face of it, an organization is a goddamn fraud, the people who have chosen to associate with it will be judged. A free society, where information is easily had, can be a bitch that way.
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DRE

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:05 am

Guys, please read the links. Ask yourself if you really want to come across this way towards Scientologists who have doubts about their church. If you want to condemn the victims and the redeemables along with the criminals. Because, let me tell you, as far as I'm concerned you're doing exactly that. There was someone on both of those links saying the best thing all Scientologists could do for the world would be committ mass suicide. He was threatening to shoot them if they came to his house. Another person was calling me a snake in the grass and a liar. Neither of which I am. Do you want to support these people? I would hope not.

I'm not saying you have to give the criminal Scientologists a free pass. I wouldn't want that. But I also want you to refrain from condemning those who aren't criminals. Those who use their tech to help people. Those willing to admit their mistakes, learn, and make friends with critics. They do exist. I know them. They don't see their religion as a criminal organization or an unredeemable cult. They haven't condemned me as an SP even though I don't like their church and they know it. I believe they should be acknowledged and allowed to practice Scientology their way, to hopefully one day grow to dominate their church- or at least build good lives for themselves and their friends. I will allow them the chance to do it even if you won't.
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gogogadget

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:10 pm

"If you..." If WHO? Since a sizeable chunk of the people who post here WERE Scientologists, I think you're than likely to find people supportive of the rank and file of Scientology than on any other site critical of scientology.

I don't know if you mean to sound this way, DRE, but you sound like you have a martyr complexion and you want someone to recognize you as... something. A peacemaker or an author, or something.

Your posts have a lot "I want you to..."

DRE, you don't have that authority.

"I will allow them the chance to do it even if you won't."

That's great. What a relief that must be to Scientologists everywhere. A poster to an internet board is willing to give them a chance.

"They do exist. I know them."

So bring 'em along. In fact you can create your own "Scientology Just Has a Few Problems" board and you can heap your sanctimony to your heart's content.
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CherryTree

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:21 pm

You know I think none of you are getting the point DRE is trying to tell. All he is saying that not all Scientologists are bad. Which I have to agree with. I have dad that is so fanatic into Scn that even my whole story that I told him didn't make any kind of change to him. I still don't consider him a bad person. He is just brainwashed. And I wouldn't want some crazy anti-Scn to go along and shoot him :( All I'm saying is that you are on some kind of defence-mechanism here when DRE didn't even post anything offensive. I think the only thing he is trying to point out that anti-Scn people can get just as bad as Scn, and I agree. I don't think he is trying to convince anyone that Scn is all good. He is just showing other points of view and isn't that supposed to be also welcomed here? and yet everyone who wrote in this topic jumps at his throat as if he said something terrible. Thanks for reading
just when you thought it's all wrong it proved otherwise
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Anonymous9104

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:49 pm

Cherrytree,

I definitely appreciate your thoughts.

To get a more objective opinion on the matter, I might suggest you read through ALL of DRE's post from beginning to end.

You will see that NONE of us have ever said Scions are bad.

We here already know that many otherwise intelligent and good people have joined the cult.

If you read each of mine, of gogadgetgo and iknowtoomuch and lronisgone and several other posters, you will see that we are all understanding and tolerant human beings.

The other issue is this is an Ex Sci Kids board, not a pro forum.

Out of courtesy, openness and support the moderators provide a pro scientology section.

If you read ALL of DRE's post (or even most of them), perhaps you will also see the pattern of him twisting words, fabricating ideas.

He has made innuendos that many of us are haters, (which doesn't even fit and as a writer he should know the true definition and proper context), and then when called on it, says that no one here fits his definition of a hater.

It is very frustrating to make it look like he is getting picked on when we are really open tolerant people. If you read his past posts, that is the best way to form a complete opinion on it.

If you still feel this way, I respect that.

But to be clear NONE of us here, to my knowledge has EVER said Scions are Bad people of and just because of cult affiliation.

Thanks for reading.
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Anonymous9104

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:50 pm

The point we are making is has nothing to do with Scilons being bad per se, but the cult is bad. Not necessarily all the people.

This is what is frustrating about DRE's posts, you have to read very carefully and pay attention when the words get twisted.
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Orderous

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:59 pm

Cherry; Like has been said earlier in the thread, DRE is naive, in fact so naive that the definition has to be expanded. The realization that scientology is mostly full of useless bs, and that Hubbard was a fallible man, or as a closer truth may be; a complete and utter bastard, has failed to hit DRE yet. And the posts are therefore wrought with logical fallacies and utter crap.


Now as for what may be a sightly more interesting view on scilons. I personally have never met a person I have hated or even disliked in my entire life, no it's not because I'm shielded, hell I know a couple of muslims who's views on the world are near kin to those of Osama. What I do despise, and always will, is people. You see a person is in my view brilliant, capable of anything he or she sets their mind to. People on the other hand are dangerous, manipulative, and outright idiots.

What does this have to do with scilons? Well, it honestly is the perfect example. Consider this; a scilon will always feel part of the group, a scilon will always protect the group, a scilon will always work for the group, a scilon lives the group. A scilon is therefore never a person, but always a part of people. They react as the people wish them to, they act as the people wish them to, they think as the people wish them to. However, I know based on the people on this forum (in particular Hidden from "way back when"), that the person behind the scilon moniker is as wonderful and brilliant as any person on the face of the planet.

The Scientologist is always a bastard, because a scientologist is the group and not the person, and so long as they think as the group scientologists are not good people. It's only when you draw them away from the group, away from being scilons into being a person, that you find a briliant human being.
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
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CherryTree

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OTIII

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:05 pm

I agree as much for the Scientologists part of CoS, but lets say Freezoners are not that way for example, and although Scientology is bs, I know that, they have the right to believe whatever they want, no matter how big bs it is.
just when you thought it's all wrong it proved otherwise
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Grundy

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Post Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:11 pm

Well .. three things.

1) Threat and Harrassment is a forum for Threats and Harrassment against the founders of ESK.

2) DRE - yes there are critics who just criticize. But there are a lot of good people who react against injustices.

3) Orderous and Cherry Tree have made good points. And Im going to stop it here because I see the name calling coming back and grudge wars are not going to happen.

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