You are CLEAR!

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ChaoticPsychotic

OTIII

Posts: 246

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:56 pm

Location: US and A

Post Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:47 am

You are CLEAR!

Here is some food for thought...

The "Reactive Mind" is bullshit. You don't have one. Never did.

Now you are Clear! :roll:

That will be 5 bucks...

I accept PayPal, Cash or Money Orders :twisted:


Seriously though, there is a Conscious Mind and a Subconscious Mind. There is no "Analytical Mind" or "Reactive Mind". Ask a shrink.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" - Nietzsche
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Anonymuzs

EPFer

Posts: 42

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:24 pm

Post Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:20 am

It was just Hubbard taking psychiatry principles and warping them to fit into his own belief set, if he even truly believed his own writings.

If you've ever heard of the id, ego and super ego first put forth by Freud in the 1920's, you can find a lot of similar principles between those and dianetics, or what I've seen of it I should say.

Everything I've read about the TR's and courses of scientology screams of psychiatric basics and fundamentals, unfortunately it's usually used in such a way as to cause degradation instead of cohesiveness.



Also my 5 bucks is in the mail, but that "donation" better be tax deductible!
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Tru2form

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 1204

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:56 am

Location: Beijing, China

Post Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:41 am

Hmm. Maybe I should make "Clear" the starting rank on the message boards.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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Holden Caulfield

User avatar

PTS Type III

Posts: 419

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:44 pm

Location: A Central Park Bench

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:16 am

Yes, but sadly Freuds theories are often overlooked in modern psychology.
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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CNote

Non-E

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:39 am

Location: California

Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:09 am

I agree Anonymuzs, L Ron definitely grabbed some Freud concepts and morphed them into sounding half-way original. Sadly, Freud also believed that any sort of mass moral belief that enforced guilt or shame upon people was essentially hindering people's happiness and the evolution of society (to which he claimed was the fundamental purpose of western religions altogether). He said the entire "original sin" concept and it's subsequent result of a dependant and depressed western culture was a trajedy in human development. Ironically, L Ron ran with the concepts of Freud AND original sin, claiming that people are born messed up (but for allegedly factual and not moral reasons) and he claimed that the shame and guilt produced by Scientology were only red flags that you needed yet MORE Scientology -- to be 'happy' or 'pure', what have you. Freud would roll over in his grave if he knew Scientology was based off any of his theories! Eh. Thankfully, L Ron never cited Freud as a source...then again...he never cited anyone...
"I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."
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RLSteve

Site Admin

Posts: 414

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:03 am

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:28 am

CNote wrote:Thankfully, L Ron never cited Freud as a source...then again...he never cited anyone...


I've never heard Hubbard directly say that Freud was a source for his work, but the Church says that Freud as well as many other people were sources for Hubbard's work.
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Holden Caulfield

User avatar

PTS Type III

Posts: 419

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:44 pm

Location: A Central Park Bench

Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:31 pm

That's what they need to say in order to project the image of Elron as a scholar. I've in fact seen him order psychology and psychiatry books to be burned on a taped lecture (forget which one) and off stage they were because the room filled with smoke.
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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CNote

Non-E

Posts: 6

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:39 am

Location: California

Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:39 pm

In my opinion, the Church had to say that. Considering L Ron clearly ripped off Freud and Rousseau, among many others -- there was bound to come a point where people said "uhh, I could've sworn I read this somewhere...hmm, reminds me of college", and the Church had to come up with an explanation. I feel that L Ron did not intend to 'rip off' the work of others, I mean, all sciences or philosophies are inspired by the work of others. However, most scientists or philosophers cite others as the inspirations of their research, or at least they cite the research of others to further prove their findings (or disprove other's findings). If L Ron's theory of the universe is in fact true (which is highly questionable these days), then he would have been smart to cite the findings of other scientists in his work, to make it more credible. Unfortunately, he rather pompously took all the credit, and he threw in some really weird off-the-wall factoids that seem to have no credible basis whatsoever. It is possible that L Ron got it all right. I guess anything's possible. However, if he really wished to selflessly help others for the salvation of mankind, I feel that he would have relentlessly backed up his theories, even if that meant he had to share his credibility. But instead, he claimed to be all-powerful and magically chock-full of forbidden knowledge, which are grounds for anyone to question his sanity. I feel that if the Church wanted to salvage Scientology (If they do in fact want to 'save mankind'), they would take L Ron off the pedestal and start revising (or removing) some of the more questionable scriptures of Scientology. People nowadays want to know the practical reasons why Scientology is helpful, and they'd be more inclined to trust in Scientology knowing that L Ron was a book-reading human and not some 'magic dude'. The Church's stubborn refusal to update Scientology is their own enemy. And to me, that is sad. I think Scientology can offer some helpful services, if only the Church valued the practical benefits of Scientology over the comical and cryptic James Bond secret-handshake aspect of the whole thing. I feel like saying "grow up" to the Church, if they wish to exist in 20 years. Ehhh...I'm ranting.....ok well that's that.
"I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."
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hidden

User avatar

Clear

Posts: 61

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 1:59 am

Post Sun May 25, 2008 8:14 am

Re: You are CLEAR!

ChaoticPsychotic wrote:Here is some food for thought...

The "Reactive Mind" is bullshit. You don't have one. Never did.

Now you are Clear! :roll:

That will be 5 bucks...

I accept PayPal, Cash or Money Orders :twisted:


Seriously though, there is a Conscious Mind and a Subconscious Mind. There is no "Analytical Mind" or "Reactive Mind". Ask a shrink.


doesnt work that way
“You won't always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons - "The work was free. Keep it so."
~L. Ron Hubbard

International Freezone Association
http://internationalfreezone.net/
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mrtampa

Clear

Posts: 97

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:05 am

Location: TAMPA

Post Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:21 am

Yes, you have a point here though you might not know. Who was really clear and who was not - there was a tendency in 1990s when we tended to decleare people to clear no mater what audting they got, etc, people went clear all over the place - in 2000s the enw tendency was to give a bunch of people a non-clear R-factor (telling them they have not made it yet and they have to redo their lower grades). Actually around 2004 DM announced to the Sea Org staff that the lower grades procedures have been altered, Objectives were run incorrectly so this subject is a huge mistery. I do not know if they managed yet to redo or rewrite how to do grade IV etc , yet - but yes, the auditing changed a lot and as confusing even to insiders

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