What's your opinion on TRs?

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ChaoticPsychotic

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:24 pm

Upper Indocs were totally scary! I did them when I was 11 and the dude I was trying to get to walk across the room was about 6'2" and I think I was about 4'9" and weighed about 75 lbs! Needless to say he could pick me up and pitch me across the room if he wanted to (he did a couple times).

I always wondered about the ashtray too - I mean if you were truly Tone 40, wouldn't it lift itself up? I asked my sup that once. I just got laughed at.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" - Nietzsche
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:29 pm

ChaoticPsychotic wrote:I always wondered about the ashtray too - I mean if you were truly Tone 40, wouldn't it lift itself up? I asked my sup that once. I just got laughed at.


HAHA, that's an excellent point!
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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RLSteve

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:37 pm

Yeah.... what the fuck is the deal with the ashtray?

And what was Hubbard's deal with Alice in Wonderland?
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Orderous

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:25 am

RLSteve wrote:And what was Hubbard's deal with Alice in Wonderland?


The only book to threaten most of the Scientology writings as; "Famous book written on most opiates", maybe?
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
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Grundy

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:38 am

ChaoticPsychotic wrote:Upper Indocs were totally scary! I did them when I was 11 and the dude I was trying to get to walk across the room was about 6'2" and I think I was about 4'9" and weighed about 75 lbs! Needless to say he could pick me up and pitch me across the room if he wanted to (he did a couple times).

I always wondered about the ashtray too - I mean if you were truly Tone 40, wouldn't it lift itself up? I asked my sup that once. I just got laughed at.


I must admit ... I was guilty of being the big ass dude who made the little people push him around lol

As far as the ashtray moving, (theoretically) there's too much counter-intention built into MEST. Or some such crap ... :P
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ChaoticPsychotic

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:48 pm

Grundy wrote:
I must admit ... I was guilty of being the big ass dude who made the little people push him around lol


YOU BIG MEANIE!!!! :lol:

BTW, I kinda feel exposed with you - you know what I look like... :oops:
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" - Nietzsche
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Grundy

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:19 pm

ChaoticPsychotic wrote:YOU BIG MEANIE!!!! :lol:

BTW, I kinda feel exposed with you - you know what I look like... :oops:


I was a bit of a meanie :twisted:

And I probably only knew you in passing - not enough to give any information if I was being tortured with screws. :P

I could PM a photo URL and you would know what I look like too lol
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Tru2form

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:22 pm

The ASHTRAY!

I wanted it to move. I willed it to move. I begged it to move. I demanded it to RISE UP and throw of the shackles of MEST! I Tone 40ed the ashtray until it was... er... still an ashtray sitting motionless on the chair.

I really did believe at the time that if I was Tone 40 enough, it would lift itself up. My sup told me the same.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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ChaoticPsychotic

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:26 pm

:lol: Grundy, you know what I look like because of my avatar on ESMB.

Send me a pic though - I am curious if I would recognize you. Which org were you in?

Yeah - that damn ashtray was supposed to move on its own! It got heavy after lifting it up and down for hours. It was always a HUGE ugly glass thing from the 70s.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" - Nietzsche
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Critical Mass

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:17 pm

Please excuse my ignorance on the subject, but what is the difference between the TRs and Pro TRs :? ?
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Grundy

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Post Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:22 pm

Pro TRs (Hubbard Professional TR Course) is a course of study. TRs (lower TRs) are the drills/excercises this course revolves around.

Lower TRs (0-4) teach communication skills, specifically geared towards auditors asking questions.

There are also Upper Indoc TRs (6-9) which teach control, specifically geared towards controlling a preclear in session in order to get him to do what the auditor requires him to do to achieve whatever the result of the auditing procedure.
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Jenna

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Post Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:58 am

"Also, no matter what, I couldn't help the fact that I would start seeing things. When you don't blink for like, 2 hours, your vision starts to go all weird. But, you know, you tell the sup your vision went yellow or whatever and they just say, "That means you're not really confronting. You haven't passed the drill." I couldn't help it, though. "

Everything started changing colors for me too! Still does if I stare at stuff long enough! I wonder what that's about???

Anyways, I was on my 2 hour confront at Flag on Pro TRs and a fly landed on my nose and I shooed it away and I had to start my f#@*ing 2 hours over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Grundy

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Post Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:21 am

lmao .. (I shouldnt make fun. But that IS frickin hilarious. sawwy :( )

But I used to have this happen too... my twin would start melting all except his eyes which is what I was looking at. Would fall asleep, etc, etc. It was a PAIN in the ... well, you had to sit for a long time .... :P
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:49 am

We have our eyes for a reason. They are made to detect movement and to allow the brain to calculate distance between us and other objects. Staring at a focued point for hours on end is probably the most unnatural thing to the eye. Also, when doing that you activate certain areas of the brain. I forget which, but I read about this in Psychology and remember thinking "ah, thats why I saw a bunch of colours in my periphery vision when I did TRs".
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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SaintBastard

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:47 am

Tru2form wrote:Poor Grundy. Endless fires to put out. :mrgreen: You're doin' good. Just a reminder: we like having you around.

At some point, I'm going to make a seperate post about the Upper Indocs, because those "force people to walk across the room" TRs were scary.


I so cheated on my upper indocs... Its easy to pass TR 9 when you know a little judo and thoroughly intimidated your coach on TR 7.
The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it.

Frank Herbert
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Tru2form

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:58 am

SaintBastard wrote:
Tru2form wrote:Poor Grundy. Endless fires to put out. :mrgreen: You're doin' good. Just a reminder: we like having you around.

At some point, I'm going to make a seperate post about the Upper Indocs, because those "force people to walk across the room" TRs were scary.


I so cheated on my upper indocs... Its easy to pass TR 9 when you know a little judo and thoroughly intimidated your coach on TR 7.


Haaaahaha.

For the record, I'd just like to say that "Tone 40ing" someone across a room is total bs. I trained in kickboxing for years, and yeah, it's not judo, but there is such a thing as body mass. You cannot force a 400 pound man to move across a room if you're a 13 year old girl. Unless you're a strapping Mongolian 13-year-old girl.

I know that every single one of my male coaches, those who were significantly bigger than me, ended up just letting me shove them across the room. I also notice that the sup took extra care to pair us up with someone who was around our size.

A couple of times, though, my twin would be missing, and he'd end up having to justify why it was that I was futilely yanking on the arm of a 30-year-old bouncer with such delightful keyphrases as "You're just not Tone 40 enough". Never passed the drill under those circumstances, though. I noticed the sup, when I did the drill with him, didn't really judge me on my ability to get anyone moving across the room, but how Tone 40 my commands were. I got an A for effort, basically.

Then again, there are those mothers that lift cars off their kids. Maybe I just didn't care enough.

I also remember going through the entire drill dreading the thought of actually having to use it on someone.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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Grundy

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:00 am

SaintBastard wrote:I so cheated on my upper indocs... Its easy to pass TR 9 when you know a little judo and thoroughly intimidated your coach on TR 7.


LMAO!

BTW - for those who don't know what the hell we are talking about, I have now added a post which explains all of the TRs 0-4 and 6-9.

It's in the second sticky.
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SaintBastard

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:34 am

Tru2form wrote:
SaintBastard wrote:
Tru2form wrote:Poor Grundy. Endless fires to put out. :mrgreen: You're doin' good. Just a reminder: we like having you around.

At some point, I'm going to make a seperate post about the Upper Indocs, because those "force people to walk across the room" TRs were scary.


I so cheated on my upper indocs... Its easy to pass TR 9 when you know a little judo and thoroughly intimidated your coach on TR 7.


Haaaahaha.

For the record, I'd just like to say that "Tone 40ing" someone across a room is total bs. I trained in kickboxing for years, and yeah, it's not judo, but there is such a thing as body mass. You cannot force a 400 pound man to move across a room if you're a 13 year old girl. Unless you're a strapping Mongolian 13-year-old girl.

I know that every single one of my male coaches, those who were significantly bigger than me, ended up just letting me shove them across the room. I also notice that the sup took extra care to pair us up with someone who was around our size.

A couple of times, though, my twin would be missing, and he'd end up having to justify why it was that I was futilely yanking on the arm of a 30-year-old bouncer with such delightful keyphrases as "You're just not Tone 40 enough". Never passed the drill under those circumstances, though. I noticed the sup, when I did the drill with him, didn't really judge me on my ability to get anyone moving across the room, but how Tone 40 my commands were. I got an A for effort, basically.

Then again, there are those mothers that lift cars off their kids. Maybe I just didn't care enough.

I also remember going through the entire drill dreading the thought of actually having to use it on someone.


That reminds me of a saying I had when... uh... at a certain point in my life, "Remain indifferent to those things you can do nothing about and react violently and decisively to the things you can do something about."

Not completely germane... but related.
The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it.

Frank Herbert
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Grundy

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Post Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:39 am

Tru2form wrote:For the record, I'd just like to say that "Tone 40ing" someone across a room is total bs. I trained in kickboxing for years, and yeah, it's not judo, but there is such a thing as body mass. You cannot force a 400 pound man to move across a room if you're a 13 year old girl. Unless you're a strapping Mongolian 13-year-old girl.

I know that every single one of my male coaches, those who were significantly bigger than me, ended up just letting me shove them across the room. I also notice that the sup took extra care to pair us up with someone who was around our size.

A couple of times, though, my twin would be missing, and he'd end up having to justify why it was that I was futilely yanking on the arm of a 30-year-old bouncer with such delightful keyphrases as "You're just not Tone 40 enough". Never passed the drill under those circumstances, though. I noticed the sup, when I did the drill with him, didn't really judge me on my ability to get anyone moving across the room, but how Tone 40 my commands were. I got an A for effort, basically.

Then again, there are those mothers that lift cars off their kids. Maybe I just didn't care enough.

I also remember going through the entire drill dreading the thought of actually having to use it on someone.


Let me tell you, I was one of the assholes that made little women drag their big ass around the room. I never passed someone on effort. They actually did drag me around the room. Now, to be real, I didn't just fall down and sit there. That'd actually violate the drill instructions anyway. But, I also didn't make it completely impossible ....

But then again, I wouldnt have coached a 13 year old girl. That would have been out-gradient ....
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theo

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Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:47 pm

Holden Caulfield wrote:Parents having their children of five, six doing TRs is outright nuts! My parents had me and my brothers and sister do this, and there was probably nothing else that could have cemented out disinterest in Scientology more.

Sure, bullbaiting was fun, but sitting staring at each other for hours on end when you're a little kid and want to go play is just insane.

I've exerienced no benefits from TRs although I've done the Comm course probably 4 or 5 times in total and spent hundreds of hours doing TRs.


Man, I understand you. I have 2 kids now at the age of 7 and 5 (gee, they are growing up so fast) and sometimes we do TR0 but just for a few seconds. Just a little bit of gradient.

Man, you have an earliest similar on TR0. If you were pushed to do it by your parents then you said it: there is no interest in it anymore.

What's your advice about me and my kids? At what age do you think it's appropriate to start asking from them to do something.
Thanks, Theo
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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