What's your opinion on TRs?

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Holden Caulfield

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Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:31 pm

theo wrote:Man, I understand you. I have 2 kids now at the age of 7 and 5 (gee, they are growing up so fast) and sometimes we do TR0 but just for a few seconds. Just a little bit of gradient.

Man, you have an earliest similar on TR0. If you were pushed to do it by your parents then you said it: there is no interest in it anymore.

What's your advice about me and my kids? At what age do you think it's appropriate to start asking from them to do something.
Thanks, Theo


Well there is no interest in it anymore simply because I realized for myself that it doesn't do anything for me.

If you want my advice, as an ex-scilon kid, don't introduce your children to Scientology at all.

If this "tech" has helpled you in anyway, that's fine, but regardless of what you yourself might believe, your kids actually never asked to take part in it. The best thing you can do is simply wait until they "reach", and if they don't reach, they don't reach.
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:56 am

Holden Caulfield wrote:
theo wrote:Man, I understand you. I have 2 kids now at the age of 7 and 5 (gee, they are growing up so fast) and sometimes we do TR0 but just for a few seconds. Just a little bit of gradient.

Man, you have an earliest similar on TR0. If you were pushed to do it by your parents then you said it: there is no interest in it anymore.

What's your advice about me and my kids? At what age do you think it's appropriate to start asking from them to do something.
Thanks, Theo


Well there is no interest in it anymore simply because I realized for myself that it doesn't do anything for me.

If you want my advice, as an ex-scilon kid, don't introduce your children to Scientology at all.

If this "tech" has helpled you in anyway, that's fine, but regardless of what you yourself might believe, your kids actually never asked to take part in it. The best thing you can do is simply wait until they "reach", and if they don't reach, they don't reach.


Sounds good. Thanks.
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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Tru2form

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:19 am

I have to agree with Holden on this one. I'd go ahead and wait until your kids originate for themselves that they are interested.

I had exactly the same problem - my parents pushed me very hard to do Scientology and I rejected it, and they kept pushing. And I rejected harder.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

No matter how young someone is, they have the right to decide their spiritual path for themselves without influence. That's one of my strongest beliefs.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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theo

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:13 pm

Tru2form wrote:I have to agree with Holden on this one. I'd go ahead and wait until your kids originate for themselves that they are interested.

I had exactly the same problem - my parents pushed me very hard to do Scientology and I rejected it, and they kept pushing. And I rejected harder.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

No matter how young someone is, they have the right to decide their spiritual path for themselves without influence. That's one of my strongest beliefs.



Thanks, yes that is correct. If something is imposed on someone no matter how good it might be it won't help. Self determinism is the common denominator of all life. A being decides by himself.

On the other hand, I don't know if you know that, there is reach and withdraw, meaning you reach for something on someone and if they resist it you just withdraw. You don't just reach, reach, reach. This is a mistake and basically, I am sorry to say, it's not Scientology. Yes in the Sea Org there were orders that had to be complied with and the one giving the order wouldn't withdraw. But in everyday life one can withdraw, take it easy, be more relaxed not anxious about anything and let it sink in at another point of time.

I understand that for kids to have parents who insist on them doing Scientology is a nightmare. I am not kidding. Kids want havingenss and knowiness comes after some time and interest in life and especially some philosophy will come much later unless the thetan wanted that badly and is ready or rather anxious to get it. There are such cases.

So, thanks again, it's interesting to be in this sight. I have kids now and it will help me to have the viewpoint of kids of Scientologists and see some basic mistakes and try not to repeat them.
THEO SISMANIDES, EX-SO
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Rose129

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Post Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:43 pm

I remember when I was really little, if I didn't clean my room or do my homework I would have to confront my room, or my schoolbooks or whatever for hours, then do lower conditions. OOooh! and if I was REALLY bad I got an "RPF" for the weekend! fun fun!



ChaoticPsychotic wrote:The solution was to set me up with someone who was doing Pro Trs at the time and they bullbaited me on the subject for hours.

They taunted and teased me saying "You're mom's dying" or "Your mom's gonna die" and even "Your mom's dead". I was supposed to just sit there and take it unflinchingly. I couldn't handle it and started bawling my eyes out. Which of course just got me into trouble. I eventually got sent back to do OT TR 0 all over again.



That's horrible! I had a sort of similar experience when I was on M-1, my mother was not well liked at the org I was on course at. I had walked in on some execs talking about trying to declare her and was upset. The Tech Sec decided that the best way to handle the situation was to bullbait me on it personally, so he sat there for hours telling me that my mom was an SP and going into graphic detail about how he would like to blow her head off with a shotgun. I finally got sent to ethics for having a breakdown in the courseroom.
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NoSOat10

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Post Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:54 pm

Good god.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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Iknowtoomuch

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Post Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:47 pm

//Tommy Davis voice on//..."Categorically denied!!".......//voice off//


That's total horse shit. I continue to be more and more sickened by the actions of Scientologists.
"Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe. But I don't believe that anybody has a right to trick anybody, to hurt anybody, to harm some body, for their own purposes." - Jason Beghe
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doubleVee

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Post Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:18 am

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really don't know how else to express the depth of my feeling for TRs.

I was made to do 2 hour confronts at the age of 7 -- fail! fail! crash and burn! I mostly fell asleep. The supe sent me to ethics.

I got older and did more courses. Got better at it. Once I punched someone during bullbait, tho.

Got older still. Did Pro TRs and Pro Metering and stuff, and got lovely RTC passes and everything. Was proud of ability to remain stoic in the face of anything.

Had become robot. When I finally cracked about 8 years later it was shattering.

But the worst application of TRs, for me, was on the objectives as a kid. Having auditors that woulddn't say anything except the formula "look at that wall. Thank you. Walk over to that wall. Thank you. Turn around. Thank you." over and over and over and over and over again drove me NUTS. I mean, totally berserk, insane, screaming at the top of my lungs and trying to punch and kick the auditor off of me so I could escape. Unfortunately I was only, like, 8, 10, and 12-13 when I was doing that so I failed. I only made it out of the room once and after that they posted security outside. I tried everything I could think of. I faked happiness. I couldn't do it long enough to fool them. I lay down on the floor and they just dragged me back and forth. It drove me so insane I cannot tell you how upset I get still, over a decade later, oh my god!!

Oh, and the one really good auditor I ever had, the only one I could talk to, threw robotic TRs and formulaic sessions out the window. She actually talked to me and listened and had a real conversation about my problems. She was the only one that I felt actually heard me.

She was subsequently busted out of the tech div. I'm not sure if she's even still in the SO.

Oh yeah, and when my dad died, I kept my TRs in just like I was expected to. Never cried or anything. Nobody bullbaited me on it, thank god. An auditor decided to give me a session to "handle the loss". After about 2 hours she decided that I wasn't getting over it fast enough and that that was my fault. Since a couple hours of processing couldn't solve my issues that meant I was somehow wrong/evil. She called me a "black hole that takes and takes and never gives out anything" and it still hurts to remember that.
Somebody has to speak for these people.... no more running. I aim to misbehave.... If you can't do something smart, do something right. (Serenity)
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Rose129

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Post Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:20 am

I know. That drove me crazy too. My dad audited me on my objectives and I used to have meltdowns just like that. It seemed silly at first, then it became more and more torturous. I screamed and kicked and tried to run. Eventually I got to be really good at guessing what the EP was and pretending I'd EP'd. Never flunked my meter check either, I guess I was just so happy to be out of session that I FN'd
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doubleVee

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Post Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:38 am

As far as TR 7 goes -- anyone here know who Sakhi Guma is? That GIANT African in CLO? Well I did them with him, as a 5'6, 130 lb, 17-year-old girl... it didn't go well. Did you know that Leb Hall has a cement floor under that thin grey carpet? ouch.

Once I was over 1 1/2 hours into a 2 hour confront and the Supe came over and told us "course time is over go to dinner". I ignored him for several repetitions hoping he'd get the hint, but eventually my twin broke. I almost cried, I chewed him out in front of everyone (poor 50 year old dude, getting yelled at by a 17 year old HCO kid).


I think being made to go through TRs, especially upper indocs, really seals the deal on whether Scientology is brainwashing or not. I described the procedures to my husband and he got really pissed. He says that that's exactly how people have been brainwashed by other groups (he's into history and psychology so I believe him). I haven't wanted to do any research on the subject myself. It's one of the few things that really upsets me still. I mean it really makes me nauseus (sp?) and boils my blood. I'd rather sit and think about being punched in the face and belt-whipped by my dad than remember getting the objectives. Maybe I'm just twisted up and backward, or something, the level of my reaction seems not to make sense.

I did eventually give up. It took years of stopping and going back, but eventually I just didn't care anymore. I turned into a robot and retreated into my own little shell, just like I did at home when mom and/or dad was beating the shit out of me. They said I EPd.

AFter I left the SO they told me my Objectives were still un-flat and I had to come back and re-do them. This was about 12 years after finishing them. I said absolutely not no way in h**l will I ever do that again, EVER. Mom says that proves that I need to. All my problems will be solved!!

All my experience with Scientology and having Scilon parents has resulted in the exact opposite of what Scientology advertises itself to create: a person who is NEVER in PT, doesn't dare think for themself at all, and is a prisoner in every way but wearing physical shackles (except when I actually was locked in occasionally). Right there is proof that they LIE. (Except they say that it's just me, not them. I'm No Case Gain. It works for everyone else!)

Wow, I'm really getting angry. :( I think I'd better leave this thread now.
Somebody has to speak for these people.... no more running. I aim to misbehave.... If you can't do something smart, do something right. (Serenity)
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Walker.

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:48 am

TR's are a big setup for communicatory slavery. They exist to get you used to taking communication based commands and turning your communication into formula rather than origination. Typical cult structure.
And this just feels like spinning plates
Our bodies floating down the muddy river
-Radiohead
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Tru2form

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:21 am

Walker. wrote:TR's are a big setup for communicatory slavery. They exist to get you used to taking communication based commands and turning your communication into formula rather than origination. Typical cult structure.


Hey, I couldn't agree more. I've said it before and I'll say it again: life is not a formula. This could be counted among my biggest issues with Scientology: it turns human relationships into some kind of math problem. I'm sorry, but people don't work that way.

And if it does work, it only works as long as:

a) One party hasn't noticed that a formula is being applied OR
b) Both / all parties are in agreement with the formula.

And this very fact disproves the "technology/science" claims. If Scn was actually a technology or science, it would work regardless of whether or not someone noticed and disagreed with it.

Nothing infuriated me more than knowing I was being "Tone 40ed" or "TR2'd" or that the murder routine was being applied to me. I do not want my human relationships to run based on a pre-determined set of fake laws. And I would rebell and not react the way I knew I was supposed to.

If it *was* a science, I could disagree and rebell all I wanted, and the results would have remained the same. I can disagree with gravity until I'm blue in the face, but I still can't freakin' levitate.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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Orderous

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:25 am

Tru2form wrote:life is not a formula. This could be counted among my biggest issues with Scientology: it turns human relationships into some kind of math problem. I'm sorry, but people don't work that way.


Sorry, I know it's not preciesly what you meant, but this struck me when reading that

Image
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
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James McGuigan

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:14 pm

The TRs and Scientology have made me a little emotionally disconnected from others. Yet at the same time I do feel a need to find people with whom I can allow myself to emotionally connect with, yet these are very few and far between, and yet the emotional connection may not always run both ways to the same level of intensity.

Sometimes its easy to be too self-concious and non-spontanious with others, at the rules and boundaries don't always seem "intuitive", and to pause to think about something spontaneous will usually kill the action/thought.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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Anonymous9104

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:08 pm

Tru2form wrote:Jesus. Yeah, one of the problems the supervisors had was that ElRon never laid out any stipulations for what couldn't be done during TR 0 BB. Technically, it's OK to reach over and grab someone's breasts/penis whatever. And if the supervisor did object, the student would be like, "Why? Where in the policies does it say that's not OK?" It doesn't. Guys that bullbaited me used to run their hands up my leg (I was about 13) and say things like, "c'mon baby, why don't you come over to my place?"

And you just have to sit there and not blink. As a 13 year old, it was really hard not to get uncomfortable, or laugh, or slap their hand or whatever.

I actually asked my supervisor one time, "so... they could do anything? They could touch me anywhere?"

And the sup didn't know how to answer, because nowhere in the policy letters does it say "no touching". If the supervisor said "No", it was verbal tech. And if they said "yes", it was verbal tech. So they just made me re-read the bulliten again, which of course didn't answer the f-ing question, because the answer wasn't in there.


Doesn't that strike anyone as WRONG CREEPY ILLEGITIMATE? Maybe psychologically speaking... all the ex's are DESENSITIZED by a large degree to the INSANITY that was their life...

I mean... it doesn't take a genius to see what is wrong here, that is unless of course you were brainwashed by a deadly cult from a young age.
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Anonymous9104

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Post Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:09 pm

Orderous wrote:
Tru2form wrote:life is not a formula. This could be counted among my biggest issues with Scientology: it turns human relationships into some kind of math problem. I'm sorry, but people don't work that way.


Sorry, I know it's not preciesly what you meant, but this struck me when reading that

Image


Beautiful
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Scarf

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Post Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:28 am

Not being an ex-sci here's what i've got

Well, when people describe the effects of TR-Zombie eyes I get flashbacks to- of all things- chapel in school. If the preacher/teacher/pastor/whomever stood at the pulpit long enough without moving then my vision would go all swirly and colors would begin to pop out everywhere, like rainbows. I used to cultivate that because it was fun to look at. From what I understand, it's when your eyes are viewing the same thing for so long that they just can't process the chemical signal for that particular color in the rod cells (maybe cone cells, i can't remember which does what, one's color and the other's b&w if I'm not mistaken) and it just starts firing whatever it can. I could be wrong; I get a little worried when I try to post that doing anything else (like research) will make the post vanish. It's happened today. But check Wikipedia, it's bound to be in there somewhere.
Now these three things are for always: faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love.
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Walker.

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Post Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:34 am

I find TR's to be quite gay.
And this just feels like spinning plates
Our bodies floating down the muddy river
-Radiohead
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verboten

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Post Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:41 am

well then

I guess that bit might enplane why I was either numb or raging mad all through my teen years, can you say Mace Kingsly ranch...O, who remembers the RRU there?
lol, and here I was thinking i was having a normal teenage issue...never mind being anti social and still was a virgin till I was 19 with an older woman... :twisted:
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James McGuigan

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Post Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:37 pm

I never noticed this myself on the TRs, but have managed to achieve it since. Its known as Eidetic Vision, and has been documented historically, and sometimes reported by people placed into solitary confinement.


Leonardo Da Vinci called it "Eidetic Vision", and it is said that a friend of his discovered the technique when staring at a wall upon which superstitious folk, particularly the sick, would stop and spit. The man is said to have gazed at the wall for hours, amazed at the shapes and forms which arose out of the blobs of phelgm. Any object which is sufficiently complex, from manufactured items to natural growths can be used in this way. I recall once becoming fascinating by the swirls and shapes seen in the remains of a plate of different-flavours of ice-cream.
[source: Sensory Enhancement Exercises - http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/rit_sensoryex.html]
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
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