How much Scientology do you still believe?

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Walker.

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Post Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:44 am

How much Scientology do you still believe?

Hello. What i notice is that exers tend to believe less and less Scientology over time. I was wondering about people's experience with Scientology now that they are out. How much of it do you still use in your daily life? How much or how many of the terms do you still use? Do you still use a lot? Do you use less over time? Also, how long have you been out?

I myself have been out 9 years. I'm not yet going to post my experience as far as these questions, I don't want to influence things in any particular way. All experiences are welcome.
And this just feels like spinning plates
Our bodies floating down the muddy river
-Radiohead
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Iknowtoomuch

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Post Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:54 am

I use little to no Scientology in my daily life.

I'd say I believe in 5-10% of it still. But most of that is covered in other religions.
"Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe. But I don't believe that anybody has a right to trick anybody, to hurt anybody, to harm some body, for their own purposes." - Jason Beghe
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doubleVee

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Post Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:10 am

Iknowtoomuch wrote:I'd say I believe in 5-10% of it still. But most of that is covered in other religions.


Me, too. And I don't think of it as Scientology anymore, either just common sense or as part of wherever else it came from (eg Christianity or psychology or whatever).

I have to force myself not to reject things out of hand BECAUSE they were taught to me as part of Scientology.
Somebody has to speak for these people.... no more running. I aim to misbehave.... If you can't do something smart, do something right. (Serenity)
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Tru2form

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Post Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:07 am

Oh wow, good point, Walker.

It's true, I've noticed the same thing. When I first left, I picked only the absolute worst of it to disagree with. The rest of it was "cool, but not for me".

It took a very, very long time to sort out fact from fiction, and to get my mind into a place where I could say, "Okay, I might believe such-and-such is true, but that doesn't mean it is, it just means I believe it. If someone can prove me wrong, I should be open to hearing what they have to say." I wasn't a rational thinker when I left, I was an absolutist. "I just know," I would say, "I don't need proof".

Over the years, the little bits I still believed in were chipped away by a series of friends, realizations, strange circumstances and my own mistakes. A lot of the Scientology mindsets (not necessarily things that were in the tech) disappeared as well, such as:

- I'm going to suffer in screaming misery through this unbelievable period pain / headache / joint ache because Tylenol and mild medications are bad, and you should avoid them. It's better to be miserable than to take a pill.

How I figured it out: I used to get seasickness every time I got on a boat, and when I was in Thailand, I had to take a long-distance bus every month to the border. I used to barf every trip. I told one of the other guys at the camp about it, and he said, "So dramamine doesn't work on you?" I didn't even know there was such a thing as motion sickness medication. I was like, "you're telling me I felt like shit on EVERY whale watching trip I ever went on as a kid, and there's a pill I can take for that?" I took half of a dramamine on my next bus ride, and OH MY GOD. It worked. I felt GREAT. I couldn't BELEIVE it. I went the whole ride without having to sit there thinking, "Don'tthrowupdon'tthrowupdon'tthrowup". I enjoyed the trip! Later I thought to myself, "Huh. Well, maybe *some* medication can be good."

I then found out that all I have to do is take a Tylenol when my period starts, and instead of laying in bed screaming for a day and missing work, I can function like a normal human being. ALL DAY. I don't hurt at ALL. Things changed a bit after that.

- I will date someone who drinks way too much alcohol every week, because alcohol isn't really a "drug", but I won't date someone who smokes a joint once a year. In fact, I'll kick someone to the curb in seconds, stop being their friend, or yell at them if I find out they've ever even looked at pot.

What I learned: Though Scientologist youth go out drinking with no problem, and their parents regularly enjoy cocktails and a glass of wine like everyone else, the mere mention of pot will have a Scientology kid flipping out on you in seconds.

Sorry guys, but the scientific evidence from the last 50 years all supports the fact that pot is nowhere near as harmful a substance as alcohol. I used to refuse to believe this. But after dating first a pothead (unkowningly - I broke up with him the minute I found out, poor guy) and then a pretty rabid alcoholic, I have to say I prefer the former.

I also no longer start sobbing and leave when someone ACROSS THE ROOM at a party that I DON'T EVEN KNOW lights a joint. Funny, even though everyone was drinking, that didn't bother me in the slightest.

- All people on psych drugs should be lectured and "saved" from themselves, and failing that, treated with condescention, disdain and a little fear. After all, they're ticking time bombs likely to stab me to death any second.

What I learned: No matter what your stance on psych drugs, absolutely no one in the entire universe benefits from being looked down upon, preached at, lectured to, or treated like a freak. And you know what? Most of the time, it is none of anyone else's business how they choose to deal with their own issues.

- If I go through a car accident or take a fall, it's because I must have been doing something bad recently. I'm guilty of something horrible, even if I can't think of what. If I can't think of anything, it's probably because it happened last lifetime.

What I learned: An accident is, um, an accident. A screw-up. A mistake. Not some cosmic retribution for me forgetting to call someone back.

- Keeping secrets, any secret, is bad. You should write down everything you know about friends, relatives, and yourself and tell someone / show an ethics officer.

What I learned: People have a right to keep their secrets. If someone is uncomfortable talking about a problem they're having, you're not "being a friend" when you run off and tell the ethics officer (or anyone) after promising not to discuss it, you're being an asshole, and you're making that person feel unsafe.

And I do not need to feel guilty because I don't want to tell someone something. Keeping myself to myself does not mean I have crimes - it's just a basic right and a basic choice.

And you know, my life has been a whole, whole lot better since I kicked those ideas to the curb. But it took a phenomenally long time.

Scientology does have some common sense in it, and those are the bits I still believe. Yeah, just about 5-10%. I wouldn't say I use it, but I definitely do acknowledge that it's useful.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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Walker.

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Post Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:53 am

Thank you so far, I hope people continue to post, i find this fascinating.

Kendra you and I are right on the same page about that. I have studied neuroscience extensively and what i can tell you is that because of the way the brain develops over time, one's own neurology becomes more resolute or "concratized," as it is often put. This means that the brain starts out as somewhat of a blank mesh, free of meaning, experience and so on. This meaning and experience gets wired into the brain over time and gets kind of "set" like cement into the brain. As you get old, your brain for whatever reason loses energy and cellular form, similar to your eye and ear muscles. It doesnt become stupider or weaker, but because it is losing energy, it (or the person) starts to kind of relax in the muscular sense and lose some of the ability to generate new meanings in regards to one's interactions. This is noticed in the outer world as one getting "set in their ways." You will also notice that all young people ask questions all the time and then stop.

I think that for Scientologists who enter as adults and also leave as adults have a long time of removing their system of belief. However, I dont think that Scientology gets wired into their personal way of thinking and being as deeply as it does for a Scientology kid. For you and me, it was our whole world. And on top of that, during our most essential years of neurological formation, this whole way of being was wired into our tiny souls. I just got rid of the last of that stuff a month ago, and I have been out for 9 years. And it wasnt the tech i was getting rid of as much as the fears, the paranoias, the attitudes towards things like over the counter pills, psychs and psych drugs, people who were different from my family and so on. Those fears and attitudes really buried themselves deeply in me for a long time.
And this just feels like spinning plates
Our bodies floating down the muddy river
-Radiohead
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NoSOat10

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Post Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:11 pm

For you and me, it was our whole world. And on top of that, during our most essential years of neurological formation, this whole way of being was wired into our tiny souls.


I agree completely. When I read your question, my first reaction was that I couldn't really answer it because I don't honestly know where some of my ideas and instincts begin or end as different from those I made because of being in Scientology. I think I use parts of it still without realizing it. Certain aspects just make "sense", and I'll catch myself using those bits without thought and then decide to give them a new look. Although Ive been dubious about parts of the church for a long time (many years), my feelings about it and its teachings have shifted even since I found this site. It's only at this point I'd categorize myself as out.

The cycle of crap I've been through is just like the cycle of crap you've all been through, it was just a different generation of names. Reading the similarities in the stories posted here made me finally realize that It Doesn't Work and that the damage it inflicts on people's lives is just going to continue unless something changes.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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doubleVee

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Post Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:11 pm

I went through the same things that you did K, pretty much perfectly as you described it. It took me about 6 years to do so. And I'm STILL changing things around in there. :)
Somebody has to speak for these people.... no more running. I aim to misbehave.... If you can't do something smart, do something right. (Serenity)
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:48 pm

Walker. wrote:I think that for Scientologists who enter as adults and also leave as adults have a long time of removing their system of belief. However, I dont think that Scientology gets wired into their personal way of thinking and being as deeply as it does for a Scientology kid. For you and me, it was our whole world. And on top of that, during our most essential years of neurological formation, this whole way of being was wired into our tiny souls. I just got rid of the last of that stuff a month ago, and I have been out for 9 years. And it wasnt the tech i was getting rid of as much as the fears, the paranoias, the attitudes towards things like over the counter pills, psychs and psych drugs, people who were different from my family and so on. Those fears and attitudes really buried themselves deeply in me for a long time.


Great thread start, but I'm going to disagree with you here. Many studies of religiosity tend to show that the degree of religiosity is stronger when it is self-determined. Socilogists of religion distinguish between intrinsic religiosity and extrinsic religiosity, where the former is self-determined and the latter is culturally conditioned. They may also be likned, naturally, but it is a known fact that almost 80% of people who become religious by choice, i.e. when they are not raised in a religious environment, do so between the ages of 18-20 and tend to be more devoted to their faith than those who are brought up religious.

From my point of view this is very much so. The kids in my familiy have rejected Scientology alot easier than our parents.
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is where I was born, and what my lousy childhood was like, but I don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth."
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Walker.

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Post Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:09 am

Holden Caulfield wrote:Great thread start, but I'm going to disagree with you here. Many studies of religiosity tend to show that the degree of religiosity is stronger when it is self-determined. Socilogists of religion distinguish between intrinsic religiosity and extrinsic religiosity, where the former is self-determined and the latter is culturally conditioned. They may also be likned, naturally, but it is a known fact that almost 80% of people who become religious by choice, i.e. when they are not raised in a religious environment, do so between the ages of 18-20 and tend to be more devoted to their faith than those who are brought up religious.

From my point of view this is very much so. The kids in my familiy have rejected Scientology alot easier than our parents.


Scientology is not a religion. It is not even religion-like. I know because I was raised in sci and checked out a few other religions, decided on non-denominational christianity. Scientology barely has a hair of anything religion like in it. Sure, you rejected Scientology, but what i spoke of was not the inlaying of the Scientology "tech" itself, but rather the mentalities wrapping themselves into our brains. Don't take this the wrong way, but i see them in you holden.
And this just feels like spinning plates
Our bodies floating down the muddy river
-Radiohead
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leereyno

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Post Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:12 am

It isn't a matter of believing anything.

Scientology is an evil mind control cult. One of its primary purposes is to enslave people. It does this through the careful application not only of lies, but some elements of truth. Those true elements neither originate with the cult, nor are they unique to it.

To say that nothing I learned in Scientology is true or applicable would be absurd. None of those things were original to the cult however. Anything in Scientology that is actually true can easily be found elsewhere.
Scientology: Proof that evil is not merely the absence of good.
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mrtampa

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Post Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:35 pm

good question - I myself do not look at people as Sps or PTses anymore.. but I like the study technology lot still, an dsometimes I draw up little projects still for my life .... I use assist to my eyeinjury from time to time, but still from 100% scientologist I would say I am a church-independent do scientology the my way do not interpret it for me - style scientologist. I have no problem to do a condition if a MAA does not tell me how to interpret it :)

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