What "research" did Hubbard actually do?

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Tru2form

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:37 am

What "research" did Hubbard actually do?

When I was in, I kept reading about ElRon's "research". "Research" into the mind. "Research" into the emeter. "Research" into the OT levels or whatever.

I have never seen a single research note, and one of the main problems I always had with this was that I was lead to believe that his "research" consisted of him going into a room and... I dunno. Guiding himself through.

Has anyone ever seen Hubbard's actualy research?
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RLSteve

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:47 am

I think the only research he did was just experimenting with different auditing techniques on preclears.

I always thought it was unlikely that he industriously studied different races and different primitive tribes. (Remember in The Fundamentals of Thought how he refers to blacks and Asians as "the brown and yellow people?")

You know, one of my grandmother's husbands, Ron, used to work with Hubbard. Ron told me this story about how he went up to Hubbard and said, "I've noticed you haven't produced any courses on how to do research." And Hubbard said, "That's right. That's because I do the research." And Ron said to Hubbard, "But that means it's nobody else's game but yours." Hubbard said, "That's right, it is my game." To which Ron replied, "Well, fuck that! I want my own game." And he quit Scientology after that.
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SoapBoxer

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:12 am

RLSteve wrote:"Well, fuck that! I want my own game." And he quit Scientology after that.

haahahaaha, sweet.
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chipgallo

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:59 pm

I know that Hubbard, Jr.'s (Nibs) said that his father did no research. There are many claims of research made in the book "Science of Survival," but Nibs said that LRH simply went to Cuba and sat around for six weeks drinking and popping pills while he wrote (well, dictated) the book. I'll look up the reference for the Cuba comment but below is a link to Arnie's scan of the Penthouse Magazine article where he says essentially the same things. And reveals senior Hubbard to be a woman beater among other things.

Later on somebody put the screws to Nibs and made him recant much of the negative stuff. According to Wikipedia, Nibs was sick and needed the settlement $$. He had been around the old man for years and knew him pretty well, so what do you believe?

Penthouse article
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm
Wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_DeWolf
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:58 pm

Well, it's hard to know what is true and what isn't when it comes to anecdotal evidence such as "someone I met said that x was y". This is precisely one of the things that anyone who has taken a few courses in research methods learns to be very skeptical of.

But when it comes to LRHs "research", he counters most principles in ethical research, making it nothing more than personal statements and pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.

The first thing a serious scientist does is leave his findings open to duplication so that other can follow and build upon the findings. Science is the quest for knowledge and it is seen as an ever ongoing process, wheras LRH pronounces himself as the gatekeeper of truth. That is rule number two in any science that has to do with human behaviour. You never prove a theory, since people are complex and unpredictable, you either support it through research findings or reject it.

LRH did the opposite and his view of people was that they are predictable.
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Clickman

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Post Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:44 pm

There is photographic evidence of LRH doing research.... haven't you ever seen the photo of him hooking an e-meter to a tomato plant??? :wink:

I can personally attest that I have seen the file cabinets that contain the OT 8, 9 and 10 research. There are probably 8 or 9 file cabinets full of his notes and "research". Mostly auditing himself. I haven't seen the materials themselves, but I helped to move them and they are heavy!!
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Cof$uckitude

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Post Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:06 pm

the DC org has tons of old newprint articles on their walls.

in one, Hubbard claimed to have lassoed a Kodiak bear.

:?

i believe his "research" involved vomiting up his alcohol/barbituate concoctions into the water closet.
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Lermanet.com

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Post Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:09 pm

re where hubbard got scientology, here is a my messy page on that
http://www.Lermanet.com/sources.htm

re Study Tech
http://www.Lermanet.com/exit/studytech/
look at the pages form virginia waddy

re E-meter see this thread on enturbulation forums LINK

re Hypnosis and TR-0 see this thread on ESMB chatboard [url=http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=4558LINK[/url]

questions? email me directly
regards
Arnie Lerma
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
http://www.Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to get them out of scientology
before they end up here:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net

Hey kids, LAUGH at Scientology today!
http://www.lermanet.us/SPEpisode912Trap ... eCloset.rm
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:38 am

Clickman wrote:I can personally attest that I have seen the file cabinets that contain the OT 8, 9 and 10 research. There are probably 8 or 9 file cabinets full of his notes and "research". Mostly auditing himself. I haven't seen the materials themselves, but I helped to move them and they are heavy!!


But how do you know they in fact contained that material and not something else?
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Clickman

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Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:50 am

Holden Caulfield wrote:
But how do you know they in fact contained that material and not something else?



I unfortunately can't tell you how I know because that might reveal my identity.

You don't have to take my word for it, but they were the OT 8, 9 and 10 materials. That doesn't mean they are worth the paper they are written on however. Just because LRH wrote a bunch of stuff down from his solo auditing, doesn't mean it is true.
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CNote

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Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:40 am

My thoughts exactly. Where IS the research? Even if he had studied some indigenous tribes (imagine him in some croc-hunter outfit, kickin it with the tribesmen? Naahh...) there does not seem to be any long-term statistical data or any other credible inferences which a qualified researcher needs to prove a theory. The fact that he conducted his own research, without a team of qualified psychologists, anthropologists, physicists, etc., implies that he either imagined his findings, or simply made it up rather presumptuously. The reality is that his "research" was a franken-congolmerate of human studies conducted by various deceased philosophers who weren't about to rise from the grave in order to claim copyright. And THATS not even research. That's reading. That's literature. That's the rants of men who questioned reality -- most of which had no knowledge of modern science. I wish L. Ron could've met, or read Stephen Hawking. Then what, huh? What would his franken-facts be then? There was a point where I had to tell myself all the "research" was probably fake. None of it is true. It's like thinking you live on Mars your whole life, and suddenly you realize you live on Earth.
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nom nom nom

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Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:46 am

Re: What "research" did Hubbard actually do?

Tru2form wrote:Has anyone ever seen Hubbard's actualy research?


No, but I've heard him claim to have done research others did. For instance he claims to have experimented with a highly sensitive vacuum tube that could register a "thetan" moving past it while exterior. This claim follows exactly the research someone else did and submitted to the journal maintained by the Society for Psychical Research. Whether he actually bothered to replicate someone else's results or simply was claiming to have been the originator of this experiment isn't clear.
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Sharone Stainforth

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Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:52 pm

In the time i was a messenger, i never saw him do research. He talked into a tape recorder, he wrote a lot, but i never saw any signs of research. Mind you more often than not i was sat the other side of his office door.

In fact it was quite a rarity to even go inside his office, usually he would come to the door and relay a message or give me papers to give some one. On the odd occasion i would go inside,there were usually papers all over his desk. I have no idea what they were about and at the time it did not register that it might have been useful information to have later on.

Mary Sue was pretty much the same. She spent hours in her office and rarely came out while i was on duty. On odd occasions she would ask if he (Lron) had given strict instructions not to be disturbed. Sometimes he did this. I have no idea what he was doing when he gave this instruction.

Unless Hubbard was shouting at somebody, which he was prone to do, i could not hear what was going on inside the offices. The walls were made of steel or some such metal and he had a very thick wooden door.

I say he didn't carry out research, maybe when he videoed overboardings it may have been to see how well or not human beings coped with this.
Or possibly children in chain lockers was experimentation on how well a thetan can adapt to such brutal treatment. Or maybe his research was all about fear, he certainly managed to instill fear in people.He was very extreme in his behaviour.
the man who"wanted" to rule the world was a science fiction writer, who lived out his fantasies in real life.Some body some day will say this is illegal. It won't come soon enough.

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everfree

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Post Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:51 pm

Clickman wrote:There is photographic evidence of LRH doing research.... haven't you ever seen the photo of him hooking an e-meter to a tomato plant??? :wink:

I can personally attest that I have seen the file cabinets that contain the OT 8, 9 and 10 research. There are probably 8 or 9 file cabinets full of his notes and "research". Mostly auditing himself. I haven't seen the materials themselves, but I helped to move them and they are heavy!!


I think I may know what you are referring to. At a briefing on the Freewinds - maybe a Maiden Voyage event - in the mid to late nineties Miscavige had a couple file cabinets wheeled out and said they were Hubbard's "PC folders" (record of auditing received) through OT VIII. Then he had some more file cabinets brought out and said that those were Hubbard's PC folders ~after~ OT VIII. They were PC folders, his "research" was sitting with an e-meter and running processes on himself.
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WileyCoyote

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:06 am

Tru2form wrote:When I was in, I kept reading about ElRon's "research". "Research" into the mind. "Research" into the emeter. "Research" into the OT levels or whatever.

I have never seen a single research note, and one of the main problems I always had with this was that I was lead to believe that his "research" consisted of him going into a room and... I dunno. Guiding himself through.

Has anyone ever seen Hubbard's actualy research?

I don't know the answer to this from the Scientology side, but from years of association with people who hung around Science Fiction conventions, the general consensus from their side seemed to be that what L. Ron did was steal little bits and pieces of things he'd heard elsewhere, from his fellow Sci-Fi authors, from Jack Parsons and his crowd, etc.

That lermanet page is interesting though. It explains a lot. (Doubly interesting because of that quote from Hubbard, where he claims to have "invented" Scientology in 1938, when that seems to contradict him "creating" its early form, Dianetics, in the late 40s). Exactly HOW many times did L. Ron contradict himself in the average day?
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AnonymousID-V42B

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:12 am

This kind of research?

Image
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Tru2form

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:03 am

Re: What "research" did Hubbard actually do?

nom nom nom wrote:
Tru2form wrote:Has anyone ever seen Hubbard's actualy research?


No, but I've heard him claim to have done research others did. For instance he claims to have experimented with a highly sensitive vacuum tube that could register a "thetan" moving past it while exterior. This claim follows exactly the research someone else did and submitted to the journal maintained by the Society for Psychical Research. Whether he actually bothered to replicate someone else's results or simply was claiming to have been the originator of this experiment isn't clear.


Really? Do you have links to this or the name of the original researcher? I'd love to see it.
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Orderous

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Post Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: What "research" did Hubbard actually do?

Tru2form wrote:
nom nom nom wrote:
Tru2form wrote:Has anyone ever seen Hubbard's actualy research?


No, but I've heard him claim to have done research others did. For instance he claims to have experimented with a highly sensitive vacuum tube that could register a "thetan" moving past it while exterior. This claim follows exactly the research someone else did and submitted to the journal maintained by the Society for Psychical Research. Whether he actually bothered to replicate someone else's results or simply was claiming to have been the originator of this experiment isn't clear.


Really? Do you have links to this or the name of the original researcher? I'd love to see it.


If you want to know more about Hubbard and apperant plagarism, have a look at this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientologie
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whizkid

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Post Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:43 am

Here is an example of his research. He did not believe in past lives. Auditors would come and say that people who were being audited would come up with dates of an event before they were born. LRH said that this was nonsense so just ignore it. It had happened enough times with his auditing, that he decided to play along for the fun of it.

Se he went along with it and the preclear had more improvement than with real events. So he continued to do it and people would come up with events that happpened further and further back. So that is how he discovered that people did have past lives.

At one part of the bridge you are taught how to self audit. So he did a lot of that. It is similar to my resaerch on how to create a website. I have been on the internet less than 3 years ago. Before that I did not have a computer. Almost 3 years ago I saw a computer in my neighbor's trash. I pulled it out and took it inside. I saw on the manual where they wrote a new battery would cost $140.

It was a laptop and I figured out that they threw it away since it was old and it was not worth it to get a new battery instead of a new computer. So I plugged it in and it worked. I saw the cursor on the screen but there was no mouse with it. I did know that you need a mouse to move the cursor. Then I saw a red button on the keyboard. I touched it and the cursor moved. It worked perfectly.

So I had to research how to get online. Then I had to learn by research how to get a domain and put it up on a servor. So I did that and I researched how to get more traffic coming to my website etc. I think that this is how most boys learn to masterbate, through their own research. So I have had my own website, Losing Weight, now for over 2 years. It was this type of research that was done to create MS DOS and Windows 95.
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RonTheCon

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Post Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:45 pm

:) L RON stole EDGER CAYCE work....this were were he got scientolog...if one any ever read the book COMPANION compiled by Ernest Frejer.........you would understand.. exept ron sifi his work and took god out of the picture and added greed and fair game...some of the work is exact... cell ... B T....whole track...axoims.....the bridge...cayce has the real bridge. he is the real O T ....he pass 1945...charts ect............ cayce proved ever thing he did.....the real bridge is the LAW OF ONE....and if you learn it you go free....no money.. no hate..no OSA...no groups.... no church....ever thing free... he was a poor man...selfless not selfish...love not hate...ron was a good copy cat and lier...but never O T never..
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