So, what do you think LRH was after, anyway?

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gogogadget

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:05 am

So, what do you think LRH was after, anyway?

Was he a sociopath? Was he a believer? Was he a con man? Did he get anything right?

From what I've read, he was a fabulist of the first order, sort of a Baron Munchhausen-like cat. He lied, so much in fact that he lied himself into a something like belief. He also had enough grifter skills and shamanic charm to get folks to do his bidding.

That's just me. I'm curious what other folks might think.
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Tru2form

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:44 am

You know, the first time I really thought about this was when a radio show host asked me about it. He said, "Do you have any doubt that Hubbard was just duping people?"

I told him that yes, I did have that doubt, that I'm not sure if anyone really knows everything that was going through his head.

Personally, what it sounds like to me is that he was a huge liar with a huge ego. People who lie that much, like you said, tend to make themselves believe it after a while.

I think, in looking at his past, that he tried a ton of things to garner fame, power and money. Not many of those things worked. I feel like I have something in common with Hubbard in the sense that he and I both spent a lot of time jumping from hobby to hobby, place to place, waiting for something to be worth investing everything in. Our end-goals were different, I think, but it feels like the same process to me.

I think he bounced around until he accidentally hit on something that people would revere him for, that would make him money. When he realized that Dianetics was that thing, he went with it, and then, since so many people started praising it, he started to believe it himself.
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Holden Caulfield

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:58 pm

Also, one shouldn't forget that people are products of their environment. Looking at Scientology's teachings and LRH's ambitions from the perpective of a societal critic, Scientology is immersed in the culture of capitalism in so many ways. It's all there, a pay-as-you-go religion with focus on quantity over quality, huge emphasize on success, financial and material. In fact, since the true goal of Scientology, that of "spiritual freedom" is hidden, it is packaged and sold as a self-help movement that's ment to bring you those things that are so sought after in a capitalist society; money, success, a high materialistic standard, fame, etc.

Also, it is interesting how many Christian values have actually found their way in the teachings, such as the whole second dynamic. Sceintology is in so many ways a postmodern religion if you break it down and look at it from that perspective.

If one thing, LRH was extremely uncultured. Scientology's success in the US is not a fluke, it was put together that way and from my observation Scientology has hit home a lot more among the American middle-class than in other countires. I find there to be a difference in the demographics
of American and non-American Scientologists.
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Curiosity

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:33 pm

Peace
Last edited by Curiosity on Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Curiosity

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:34 pm

Okay...[tinfoil hat] I'm just gonna post a link to J. Swift's wall of text on this matter, but personally, I think he's on to something here.
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=15690 Seriously, I think Hubbard's satanic background is under-appreciated and may well have been the driving force in his life. He certainly left an awful lot of evil in his wake...[/tinfoil hat]

EDIT: Fixed it. Apparently, it was a problem with the way I posted the link. Can someone delete the fail I posted previously, please? :P
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The Chief

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Post Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Hubbard got into it for the money and got lost when his cult of personality got to his head. He was a twat and a con man but I have no doubt that by the end, any nagging doubts he had were lost in the flood of adoration poured upon him.

You know that buzz forum moderators get when they have absolute power over their space? Note, not talking about you here Kendra :p Hubbard had that with a hundred thousand people. That's got to go to your head, especially since he had no systems of self restraint like most leaders do.
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anonfemme

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Post Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:18 am

Short term, money. When it worked, i believe his focus shifted to World Domination.

I believe he actually viewed himself as a God - Narcissistic Personality Disorder in its extreme manifestation. Classic of Hitler, David Miscaviage, Tom Cruise, L.Ron.

The entire Scientology philosophy fits with this, by borrowing from Satanism and its practises of 'self god hood', it is creating narcisists one by one.

The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you).

When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy.


Sound familiar?

Otherwise, I think he was a very twisted individual.

I read recently an interview with his son by Penthouse Magazine. That interview completely supported the above theory.

I wasn't aware before this that he had a fascination with abortions and actually performed many abortions for research and fascination purpose.

What a psycho. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:[/quote]
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Spork

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Post Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:19 pm

Hubbard's 'Affirmations' (c. 1947)

Tru2form wrote:You know, the first time I really thought about this was when a radio show host asked me about it. He said, "Do you have any doubt that Hubbard was just duping people?"

I told him that yes, I did have that doubt, that I'm not sure if anyone really knows everything that was going through his head.

Personally, what it sounds like to me is that he was a huge liar with a huge ego. People who lie that much, like you said, tend to make themselves believe it after a while.


I listened to the show and that part made me think of Hubbard's private 'Affirmations,' from which it seems clear that he wasn't entirely cynical (at least early on).

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/w ... 03-11.html.

On believing his own rubbish see especially Affirmations O, U and X. Affirmation R confirms he receives at least some of it as true.
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WileyCoyote

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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:28 pm

Re: So, what do you think LRH was after, anyway?

gogogadget wrote:Was he a sociopath? Was he a believer? Was he a con man? Did he get anything right?

From what I've read, he was a fabulist of the first order, sort of a Baron Munchhausen-like cat. He lied, so much in fact that he lied himself into a something like belief. He also had enough grifter skills and shamanic charm to get folks to do his bidding.

That's just me. I'm curious what other folks might think.

Money originally. And combined with what's been revealed about his early life, probably sex too.

Of course when you get enough money (and maybe sex too) you start to realize its ACTUALLY about getting power.

Of course, if he lost his mind somewhere along the way, then his goals could have changed. Even the worst of us sometimes lie to ourselves to "justify" things internally. And eventually come to believe some of the most absurd things.

Of course you have to believe in that "evil old psychology" to believe that. :D
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Post Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:01 pm

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Anonymous9104

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Post Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:18 pm

Re: So, what do you think LRH was after, anyway?

gogogadget wrote:Was he a sociopath? Was he a believer? Was he a con man? Did he get anything right?

From what I've read, he was a fabulist of the first order, sort of a Baron Munchhausen-like cat. He lied, so much in fact that he lied himself into a something like belief. He also had enough grifter skills and shamanic charm to get folks to do his bidding.

That's just me. I'm curious what other folks might think.


This is a GREAT question...

I'd say that he was a schizophrenic (as they are known for creating entire worlds within themselves, and some are SO believable... ~ or not far fetched)... and on top of it there are other things...

Narcissistic personality, anti-social *formerly called Sociopaths*...

He wanted power, he wanted wealth and control!

He got it too... at the cost of others.

I also think of his ties to Aleister Crawley... and how they tie in.



Did he get it? I'd say yes.
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MsBustaMove

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Post Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:33 am

May I humbly recommend SEX AND ROCKETS. (it's a book title folks, I'm not recommending sex and/or rockets to anyone. that's a personal choice).

Anyway, it details the fascinating life of Jack Parsons, rocket fuel, the California Institute of Technology and.... YES! LRH! Hoooray!!!!

Jack Parsons was a brilliant drop-out who just really liked shooting off rockets and developed what, today, we call rocket fuel. He was also really in to resurrecting the Goddess Babylon, the divine whore, so on and so on..... in a big Arts and Crafts house in Pasadena. Enter LRH, fresh from the Naval hospital who assisted Parsons in many rituals (this is the tie-in to Crowley who was had close correspondance with Parsons) and eventually ripped him off in a yacht buy-em-cheap-and sell-em-high scheme moving boats from Florida to California....hmmmm...... Florida huh? What a place to start a religion!


MBM
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