Alister Crowley and LRH? Scientology and Satanism

Moderator: doubleVee

<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:31 pm

Alister Crowley and LRH? Scientology and Satanism

I have heard that alot of the techniques that LRH came up with were borrowed from somone who had directly studied under Alister Crowley, the father of modern day satanism. Techniques such as hypnosis, mind control and Auto suggestion were actually employed by Alister Crowley if you read his book "4" and "Moon Child", also if you read the "the Golden Dawn" supposedly you find the precusor to modern day free masonry.

I had heard LRH was a practicing free Mason as well for awhile. I read an interview in Penthouse 1983 with his son and his son said in this article that he performed satanic abortion rights on his own mother. That he himself was a failed abortion attempt...that there was this constant effort to produce a "moon child" the offspring that would have the most royal soul. Maybe the anti-christ... its unclear

you can read the interview with Penthouse and L Ron Hubbard jr here

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews ... w-1983.htm

Could this have been the attempt behind Suri? Is Scientology cleverly disguised Satanism?
<<

gogogadget

Clear

Posts: 116

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Post Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:52 pm

I think you could say that Scientology is a 21st century holdout of a spiritual movement that had its roots in the 19th century. There's aspects of Theosophy, Golden Dawn, and Crowley-ish stuff that Hubbard tried to incorporate into a "rational" self-help system. It appears he also ripped-off certain aspects of German book published in the '30s called "Scientology: Science of the Constitution and Usefulness of Knowledge" by Dr. Nordenholz.

There were plenty of these sort of quasi-scientific Gnostic movements in and around Southern California mid-Century. Dianetics and Scientology just stuck somehow.

As for the Crowley connection -- Crowley himself isn't strictly "Satanic" (though a Christian might say that we're splitting hairs). Crowley propounded a Gnostic mystery religion that followed a series of revealed truths -- like Freemasonry, and the Rosicrusian groups before it and Scientology after. There were and are plenty of other groups that follow that same template of revealed truths (including early Christianity). In Crowley's belief system, humanity has access to a new evolutionary epoch through the intercession of adepts who use magic and ritual to bring it about. (Sounds like a lot of Indiana Jones gibberish to me)

There were a group of Crowley followers in Pasadena in the thirties, led by a special effects designer and amateur rocket scientist named Jack Parsons. Parsons was also affiliated with a loose circle of science fiction writers, though which he met our pal LRH.

LRH and Parsons did a lot of dabbling in Magick, looking for concrete results, whereas Crowley was peddling vivid metaphors. Crowley heard about their experiments and thought they were idiots who didn't understand Crowley's system at all.

Anyway, LRH ended up ripping off Parsons, stealing his yacht and his wife. Parsons died from a chemical explosion in his garage.

There's a couple of fascinating books about Parsons that feature LRH as a villian : Sex and Rockets: The Occult World of Jack Parsons and Strange Angel: The Otherworldly Life of Rocket Scientist John Whiteside Parsons.
<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:33 am

Mystery Sandwich

but didn't LRH say the best way to trap a tetan is in a "mystery Sandwich ?"


and on the Scarlet woman indentified in Revelations 17-18 is written on her forhead "mystery" her being metaphorical of the false religion sent to "decieve the kings of the earth"?

What kind of faith system was LRH really trying to sublimate and why?

What was his true purpose you think?
I
s 2 + 2 still 4 ?
<<

gogogadget

Clear

Posts: 116

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:13 am

Like I mentioned before, LRH used (and I guess you can say sublimated) spiritual memes that were prevalent in the era he began his "work". He picked up ideas from psychotherapy, organization theory, theosophic mumbo jumbo, popularized science, and sat down and worked out his system. Scientology is as much as a snapshot of the pseudo-intellectual currents of 50s America as a "religious system".

I think he did spend some time working at it, and made it sort of internally consistent, and I do think he believed to an extent, but he believed it because it suited his particular kind of nuts. It flattered his neurosis. It was the science fiction story he wrote and ending up believing. "Jeez... I'm on fire! This is great stuff! And it's perfectly true!"

I think he was a complex dude with an advanced self-preservation instinct.

I also think that Scientology is wholly a product of its era, and it will need to change drastically in the next few years or it will disappear entirely. The world has changed around it, and it does not have the ability to adapt. It's like North Korea.

As far as the Whore of Babylon or the Scarlet woman, I'm at a loss. I'm not sure that linkage of one word is totally airtight, especially as amorphous a word as "mystery". Interesting idea, however.
<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:25 pm

Movie the Profit

well I watched that illegal movie The Profit....and it did have a scene about him stealing the yacht and the girlfriend from Parson.

.also in the beginning of the movie Conrad Powers (LRH), takes part in a Satanic ritual, calling forth the "Scarlet Woman" who is the consort of the "horned God"...this is the movie that the Co$ really really takes offence too...it was pulled from YOUTUBE but you can still see it on Pirate Bay..also did you read that Penthouse Article from 1983 ?

Do you think his son is lying about the abortion rituals? Could that be why the SEa-org is so Pro-death? They do not need to reproduce like the mormons do, thier form of reproduction is recruitment, similar to the Borg, which is why they don't have children.

Also to think something is evil you must believe in the concept of evil, in order to be Satanist, you must first beleive there is a God to begin with..

Could have LRH known what he was doing was evil? That he was knowingly packaging something dark and occult with mind-control techniques to enslave people?
Was he purposely disguising it as as self-help knowing as Jason Beghe said that it would "fuck people up!"?

Is it possible this on purpose and that is what the co$ is trying to hide, it's occult roots?

Is this why they were so offended by the Profit movie..showed too many cards you think?

Or am I begging the question you think?
<<

Orderous

User avatar

Suppressive Person

Posts: 745

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:46 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:09 pm

I think you are trying to hard to see patterns that aren't there. I would not be surprised if he at some point was involved with Alistair Crowley, and that his ideas of forming his own religion might have come from that meeting.

Hope you don't mind me asking, but are you a Christian? And if yes, too what degree would you say that you are a believer?

Hubbard was batshit. And that should have been the end of the story, but it isn't because he took his batshit ideas and implemented them into a system he could use to exploit others. And this is, I believe, where Crowley and his satanism might have had an influence. Being able to give people enough freedom to not immediately walk into the wall, but still keeping the firmly within the walls of his control.

In essence;

Does Gold have a cave where they preform virgin sacrifices? No

Has Hubbard implemented ideas from those he interacted with? Oh, hell yes.

Now there are two more points to make. Firstly; The CoS doesn't want people to watch The Profit because it directly outlines their organisational structure and reasons for existance down to the finest detail. Including the insanity of its leaders. And it's a critical work towards the CoS, ofcourse they're going to treat it like heresy, haven't you studied up on their tactics?

Secondly; Quentin Hubbard later said that he made up a lot of the stuff that went into the Penthouse interview, but never specified what he made up.
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
<<

LronIsgonE_Snap

User avatar

Suppressive Person

Posts: 1282

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:36 pm

Location: West Coast USA

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:56 pm

I just read the 1983 Penthouse interview. It was with LRH Jr. rather than Quentin. LRH Jr. later changed his name to Ron DeWolf. Looking up Ronald DeWolf in Wikipedia, I find that Scn critics believe that Mr. DeWolf recanted in exchange for a financial settlement because he needed the money.
Enjoy your life today,
For time is fleeting.
<<

gogogadget

Clear

Posts: 116

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:13 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:31 pm

If you are a Christian, and a Christian that spends a lot of time thinking about who the Anti-Christ might be, Scientology aint He.

The Anti-Christ would be worldly, charming, competent. Not traits I'd associate with Scientology.
<<

Orderous

User avatar

Suppressive Person

Posts: 745

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:46 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:17 pm

LronIsgonE_Snap wrote:I just read the 1983 Penthouse interview. It was with LRH Jr. rather than Quentin. LRH Jr. later changed his name to Ron DeWolf. Looking up Ronald DeWolf in Wikipedia, I find that Scn critics believe that Mr. DeWolf recanted in exchange for a financial settlement because he needed the money.


Aw crap, must have gotten the two mixed up. I am certain that whomever did the interview though did later say that a lot of it was stuff he made up, if he took money for it ot not, I don't know. Gotta admit though, some of the stuff he said was pretty far out there
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:23 pm

I consider myself a student of apologetics so yes you can say I am a Christian.

That aside I find Hubbard's involvement with Parsons extremely interesting, just as I find Joseph Smith's of the mormons involvement in Free Masonry fascinating or even the Jehova's Witness Bible Translator Johannes Geber use of spriit mediums to translate the Bible from Greek when they say they are against divination equally engrossing.

There's nothing wrong with looking for clues and drawing Hypothesis, it's the sound base for beginning any discussion.

I do look for patterns and parallels among the cults, whether its the personalities of the leaders or other parallells and patterns..for example on the Mormon compound they just raided it was found that Jeff Warrens used them all as slave labor, and they worked for free that is why the Mormon compound became so big and so wealthy, from the free slave labor just as Co$ used the sea -org and children.

It's curious that the they had so many government contracts, the mormons, just as Co$ cozy deal with the IRS is suspicious as well..

There the Department of Children and Families got involved, why not with Co$ ? Why are people like Oprah and Will Smith legitimizing this cult?
What is really going on here?

The denial of higher education, suspicion of government and the roots always point to some strange leader that was paranoid or insane.

I think if we can crack the code with cults, take apart the mystery sandwhich, we can free the tethans so to speak

well as for being a Christian..it's no secret that LRH was very hostile to us, but I find organized religion of any kind, cults included to stifle the true spirituality of anyone.for when you strip away someone's individuallity like Jason said..what is really left and would God or whatever diety or philosphy you apply really really have any purpose to do that?

To destroy who you really are? Why do that? WHY?
<<

Orderous

User avatar

Suppressive Person

Posts: 745

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:46 pm

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:51 pm

sandra777 wrote:To destroy who you really are? Why do that? WHY?


To control them, plain and simple. Control for gains of money, as Hubbard did. Or control as gains of power in your patheticly short existence, as DM is.

You're starting to sound like a conspiracy nut, so tone it down a bit. Paralells and patterns is one thing, starting to read them out where they don't exist is only going to make things a lot worse.

Take the line between a mathmatician and a numerologist for example. The mathmatician will study numbers to find the rules that govern our universe, deciphering everything from gravity to evidence of natural selection. A numerologist searches for numbers that are ingrained in his head, such as all those wild ass 9/11 theories. They're connections that are at random, but someone decides that these are more than coincidences and soliders on. Getting locked on a path where the numbers occur everywhere, simply because that person wants them to.

You are heading closer to the numerologist than the mathmatician at the moment. My advice, sit back and view all the evidence separately, because that's all they are, seperate pieces of evidene. When all the seperate pieces of information are stored, that's when you produce the final picture. Don't create it as you go along.
The most important thing to learn about Life, the Universe, and Everything, is firstly; the answer is 42, and secondly; how utterly ridiculous it truly is
<<

James McGuigan

User avatar

Ghost in the Machine

Posts: 396

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:42 am

Location: Between Reality Tunnels

Post Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:58 pm

Hubbard himself talked about Crowley in the PDC (tape 18):
"it's fascinating work in itself, and that's work written by Aleister Crowley, the late Aleister Crowley, my very good friend."


While I have not yet read Crowley's works extensively, I do find parts of his work quite insightful and inspiring at times. Though there parts that don't make much sense to me, its hard to know if it simply requires a deeper level of knowledge of esoteric subjects and study of the hidden numerology in his work, or how much it is just moments of true insight surrounded by gibberish.

For those of you mystically inclined, I would recommend his short manuscript, "The Book of the Law", though I suggest you spend a few minutes thinking and reflecting on each chapter. In parts it is a description of the nature of the divine, and the direct experience of it, or what Hubbard would call the 7th and 8th dynamics.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm


If you have no knowledge of Crowley or Mysticism, then it may help to first read up a little on the nature of the "Left Hand Path" as a means to spiritual enlightenment distinct from the "Right Hand Path" of most mainstream religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Hand_ ... -Hand_Path
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Thu May 01, 2008 2:05 am

Numerology..Study?

Perhaps I am more of a numeroligist because I am searching for God alone, the only way I feel it can truly be done to some degree, without being absused and used by somebody else; by using what is good and true as weapon against me....

but I myself have observed the patterns as one observes the waves and tides of the sea, or the gravitational pull of the moon, and when it proves true enough as I have been studying the "cult Links" for the past 10 years, since I was 20..I am ready to share what I think "might" be a possible truth..have any of you conversed with the "moveon.org" kids? (Children of God)

The "Victory Camps" are the EXACT SAME as the RPF camps..there is a pattern they all follow..

I am just trying to make sense of it?
<<

James McGuigan

User avatar

Ghost in the Machine

Posts: 396

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:42 am

Location: Between Reality Tunnels

Post Thu May 01, 2008 7:58 am

Leaving Scientology taught me exactly that. You must be fully self determined when searching for "the truth" or at least "your truth". While you may expand your awareness by noticing patterns that others have seen, you are the one who must see them, and ultimately it is possible to learn from everybody, even the beggar on the street has something to teach.
Freedom is a choice. Choose to be yourself, choose to speak your truth and do so with compassion. And above all else, choose to be not afraid. If I can't dance, its not my revolution.
<<

sandra777

EPFer

Posts: 17

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:32 pm

Post Wed May 07, 2008 3:00 am

YOUTUBE CENSORSHIP

well this plays right into my "doctrine" from every angle I look at it its not good,

many of you don't believe in evil, but what happened to these youtube accounts is the CANARY IN THE CAGE...we need to wake up the anon kids...thier infiltration of the internet is ON!!

Return to Tech Debates & Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software