Being gay and the church of scientology

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Chel

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:59 pm

Being gay and the church of scientology

Heya everyone, I'm sorry if there is already something about this on this website, I couldn't find it anywhere yet.

Ok so, a while ago at the start of summer I went to stay with relatives (they are scientologists) in New york. They told me about it and I was really interested, so when I got back to the Netherlands I decided to look into it a bit more. I looked around a bit on scientology websites and I was planning on going to visit the local church here in Amsterdam, but I had a few things I wanted to know first. Like if there are any costs involved and if there was any problem with me going to the church myself as a minor ( I'm 17 years old ) or if I needed to bring like a parent, but my main concern was about me being a lesbian and if they had any problems with that (I found some things on a wikipedia site about homosexuality and scientology that were a bit.. disturbing).

I decided to send emails about this to the emails listed on the Dutch scientology website asking about this. I just wrote a bit about who I am, what I do right now, that I was interested in Scientology and I asked a few questions. I also quoted a line on the wikipedia site I found about homosexuality and Scientology, I asked them if that was true and if they really thought like that, and basicly if being gay and being in the church of Scientology go together when I really don't want to (or can't) change anything about that.


It's been like two weeks now and I didn't get an answer yet.. I've been looking into Scientology a lot more since then, thats also how I found this website. I don't really plan on getting involved with any of this now that I've read so much about this, but I really still would like to know, if possible from a scientologist or former scientologist:

Do being in the Church of Scientology and being gay go together or do they treat you in a different way?


Thanks for reading :]
Last edited by Chel on Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Public Clammer

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:55 pm

Re "non-heteros" and $cio...

Hi Chel,

I'm sure you will get many responses to this post before too long. Let me tell you what I believe based upon my experience in the cult.

Very, simply I doubt that you will hear back from them at all.

There is no place for "gay's" in the cult - but if you have money they will try to get it from you before discarding you.

Stay away totally.

And enjoy your life. You are free!
The Public Clammer!
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quicknote

Non-E

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:01 pm

Please don't join them it will save you lot's of money and will give you lot's of free time.

At least I suggest you read the following first:

De meeste van de Scientologen die in hun Dianetics* centra en zogenaamde 'Kerk' van Scientology werken, kennen dit verhaal niet, omdat het hun verboden is om het te horen voordat ze de 'hogere' niveaus van Scientology bereiken, als ze dat al ooit doen. Degenen die het weten worden gedwongen om het geheim te houden en er niet over te vertellen aan mensen die lid worden van Scientology.


More at:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenunl.htm

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm
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Chel

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Thanks for the responses :] I still hope I might get an answer from them as well but I think that if they wanted to send something back they would've by now.


And just to make this clear, I really don't plan on going there anymore.. I watched like a ton of videos on youtube and read a lot on Cos the last like three weeks.

I actually plan on going to the next protest here in Amsterdam,, looking for a place to get the mask on the internet right now, can't find it anywhere yet though :P
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astra

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Hi Chel,

Scientology does not look kindly on gays. In scientology there is a chart called the "Emotional Tone Scale". Gays are considered to be at level 1.1 on this scale which is "Covert Hostility". On this chart there is a illustration to show each tone level and for covert hostility there is an illustration of a creature pretending to be friendly while holding aboard with a nail in it behind his back. You can see this here at a scientology website:

http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/FULL.HTM

I found this website which quotes Hubbard's writings in Dianetics that homosexuals are "sexual perverts" and gives further information:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/0 ... 509898.php

When I left scientology I had to unlearn what I had been told about homosexuality.

I hope this answers your question. You have been very smart to do your research before getting involved in scientology.
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Chel

EPFer

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:39 pm

Thanks for those links Astra

According to that I'm a sexually perverted sadist that secretly wants to hurt people, and I'm supposed to be put in quarantine because I'm contagious too :shock:

I only found a small part of that before.. I really don't mind people disagreeing with who I am and I don't really get insulted when people talk about that (my father is sort of a strict catholic, he had a hard time with me being gay) but this is a bit different.. did Hubbard really wrote all that?


Atleast the pictures in the first link are funny :)
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LronIsgonE_Snap

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 pm

Chel, if you haven't already, you may be interested in reading the story of Michael Pattinson. Mr. Pattinson is a gay ex-Scientologist who completed The Bridge all the way through OT VIII, the final step currently available. I don't remember if the promises made to him were explicit or implicit, but he was led to believe that the CoS would "cure" his homosexuality. Of course this did not happen. http://lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/index.htm
Enjoy your life today,
For time is fleeting.
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Chel

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:43 pm

Thank you, reading that right now :]
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astra

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:56 pm

Dear Chel,

Yes, Hubbard did actually write that. I can tell you from experience that being in Scientology meant believing that gays were not only sexual perverts but sinister people who would stab you in the back.

I obviously don't believe this now and am a huge believer in equal rights for all. I am sorry really that you have to read through all that degrading stuff. It is nasty to the extreme. But better you know the truth.

Astra



Chel wrote:Thanks for those links Astra

According to that I'm a sexually perverted sadist that secretly wants to hurt people, and I'm supposed to be put in quarantine because I'm contagious too :shock:

I only found a small part of that before.. I really don't mind people disagreeing with who I am and I don't really get insulted when people talk about that (my father is sort of a strict catholic, he had a hard time with me being gay) but this is a bit different.. did Hubbard really wrote all that?


Atleast the pictures in the first link are funny :)
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Chel

EPFer

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Post Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:48 pm

It's exactly what I wanted to know so I don't mind reading that Astra, it's only annoying to know that some people would label me like that before even meeting me..

'omg shes gay! don't go near or shes going to make you a pervert and stab you in the back!'

I just really really want an answer from them now, I think I'm going to send them another mail and if that doesn't work I'm going to call them.

LronIsgonE_Snap wrote:Chel, if you haven't already, you may be interested in reading the story of Michael Pattinson. Mr. Pattinson is a gay ex-Scientologist who completed The Bridge all the way through OT VIII, the final step currently available. I don't remember if the promises made to him were explicit or implicit, but he was led to believe that the CoS would "cure" his homosexuality. Of course this did not happen. http://lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/index.htm


I'm about 2/3 through that, it's a really hard thing to read for me because English isn't my first language, but it's really interesting too :]



And thank you everyone for being so nice and taking the time to answer the questions I have.

Michelle
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Iknowtoomuch

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:12 am

Astra is spot on.
Homosexuality is considered an aberation. Aberation being something that is "nonsurvival" or a serious danger to your personal survival.
"Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe. But I don't believe that anybody has a right to trick anybody, to hurt anybody, to harm some body, for their own purposes." - Jason Beghe
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outlander

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:55 am

Chel,

Good on you for researching things so thoroughly. The responses given earlier to your post are accurate from the perspective of someone who spent over a dozen years working for them and grew up in the religion. Since breaking away, I and others I know have had to "deprogram" the distrust and fear of gays.

Today, some of my close friends are gay, and definately many of the most stylish!

It is good that you have strength and stability in who you are and what you feel.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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outlander

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:56 am

By the way Chel,

Your english is excellent, until you said you were from Holland, you could have passed as a native english writer!
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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Chel

EPFer

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:16 am

outlander wrote:"deprogram" the distrust and fear of gays.


That's sort of the reason why I'm a bit worried about this, religions like Christianity think it's morally wrong, but even if you think something someone doing is wrong you can still work with them and have them as friends.. If I get it right in CoS they teach you being gay means you're like an evil person people should avoid. I also read something about Hubbard saying it's contagious or something.. that's just stupid.

outlander wrote:It is good that you have strength and stability in who you are and what you feel.


Thank you outlander

And yeah I can usually write and read English pretty well, but like large complicated things with words I don't know (like difficult English words and Scientology words) are still really hard to understand usually :] I can't really speak English though, my accent is horrible :D
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outlander

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:28 am

Michelle,

You have hit the issue of Scientology and homosexuality head on. Scientology teaches people that those "deviants" by their nature can't be trusted no matter what, that betrayal and backstabbing are an absolute trait of the homosexual personality.

Yes, you are right, that is very different than believed and practiced by other religions.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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outlander

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:29 am

Michelle,

I am sure your spoken enlish is much better than you say, and your accent quite endearing.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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Chel

EPFer

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:49 am

Thanks Outlander, my accent just sounds a bit weird :]


And I don't know if any people from the Church of Scientology read this but, I'm not an evil backstabbing person :P
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beth (aka moontaco)

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Post Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:01 pm

Chel, I'm so glad you looked into the truth about Scientology and avoided getting sucked into it! What about your relatives? Are you close to them? Do you know if they've been in very long?
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NoSOat10

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Post Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:16 pm

Hi Chel,

I have had one friend who was in Scientology (grew up in it, didn't find it) and was gay. I'd ask him to post what he knows about the church's attitudes towards homosexuals, except that I can't because he committed suicide. I think that pretty much answers the question, though. The two don't go together. I don't mean to be such a downer, but I wrote this for you and anyone else curious about the subject. In the church's view it is not an acceptable condition of being, it means something is wrong with you. That translates to at least some level of disapproval from every family member and friend in the church as long as you continue to be gay.

For some reason it seems very easy for people to buy into thinking the worst about themselves, and I'm glad you avoided that trap!
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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outlander

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Post Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:48 pm

Michelle,

I visit Europe at least twice a year, and holland at least once, your country is a lot of fun, and dutch is definately easier to understand than Danish.

Don't let the negative stuff from Scientology bother you. You are becoming an adult in a new global world, where you can research anything, communicate freely with anyone, dream infinately, and make those dreams come true. With all that freedom, there is danger, and one of the skills you have shown yourself to be developing is the ability to research and learn, to evaluate and investigate true intentions. This is valuable and important for you in your life.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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