Sea Org Parents who abandoned their kids

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astra

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Post Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:22 am

Sea Org Parents who abandoned their kids

Continuing on from the posts about how the parent/child relationship is considered unimportant or non-existent in the Sea Org, I thought I'd write about a story that I'll always remember.
When I was in charge of security and ethics at the HGB, a women came to me really upset because her daughter who was at the PAC ranch (cadet org) had been having suicidal thoughts. She wanted to go see her daughter. The ranch was about a 2 hour drive away where all the sea org kids were kept. I told her she should go and she went to get her senior's permission. Well they turned her down, told her she could not go and it was not her 'responsibility' to handle her daughter, that it was the cadet org's responsibility, she should not get involved. I know, even I can't believe it as I am putting it into words. She came back to me devestated. I didn't know what to do, I empathized with her and thought she should go. I think I told her to go back and ask permission again. Anyway, she ended up going to her daughter without permission. She got into huge trouble, was told she had blown, she had to do lower conditions, make amends, etc. She was sent to me for an ethics handling. I told her that she should try to help her daughter. Soon after this, her and her husband left the sea org. But I always remember this, even not being a parent at the time, I remember how wrong it seemed. It also stood out as she was one of the few sea org parents I knew who didn't back down when it came to her kid... she did the right thing. Now, being a parent, the one thing I can't wrap my mind around is how some of these other parents, my mom included unfortunately, can turn on their kids, give up their relationships, how that parent-child bond can be manipulated and destroyed. I think that the effect scientology and the sea org has had on individual families is the worst thing about scientology.
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Dennis Erlich

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Post Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:06 am

Re: Sea Org Parents who abandoned their kids

astra wrote:Now, being a parent, the one thing I can't wrap my mind around is how some of these other parents, my mom included unfortunately, can turn on their kids, give up their relationships, how that parent-child bond can be manipulated and destroyed.

Cults are expert at breaking down parental bonds and any other loyalties that keep people distracted from their cult goals.
I think that the effect scientology and the sea org has had on individual families is the worst thing about scientology.

And the ill effects on families don't go away for years after leaving.

Dennis
"Here I sit so patiently, waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice" - B Dylan
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Clickman

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Post Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:58 am

So true Dennis. So true. I couldn't agree with you more!
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Tru2form

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Post Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:06 pm

Astra, that's absolutely disgusting. I just can't get over the fact that there's so much evidence of this kind of thing going on in the SO and the rest of scn, and yet it's 'legal' because it's religion. Every time I hear another story like this, I wonder the same. How could any parent leave their kid?

I mean, I can kind of understand if the kid is stealing, or always in and out of jail, or a heroin addict and the parents don't know what to do and can't deal with it (though I still think they should stick around) - but to abandon your kids simply based on ideology?

And to have the church out there saying they don't split up families.
Us rabbits? DO something? - Wind in the Willows
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BadassAnon

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Post Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:12 pm

Hope you don't mind my poking my mask in here.

Just wanted to say This is why. For me at least. All of the other atrocities I have read about have spurred me to join the protests and dig around online to see what I can find to aid the cause, but it is the repeated abuses of children & family bonds which has incensed me to the point of not backing down until this is done.

I have young relatives around the 7/8 age who, were they in Scientology would have been dumped off to effectively raise themselves by now. These are kids who need reminding to put shoes on before they run over the gravel path to play on the trampoline :roll:

Every time I look at my relatives, my heart breaks for those of you raised in Scieno homes who had the important family bonds wrenched apart & for those still in.

THIS IS WHY.
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leereyno

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Post Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:06 pm

Some of the kids I saw at PAC were basically orphans. Either their parents were completely gone, or they were physically present, but not really there if you know what I mean.
Scientology: Proof that evil is not merely the absence of good.
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Sharone Stainforth

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Post Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:43 pm

Now, being a parent, the one thing I can't wrap my mind around is how some of these other parents, my mom included unfortunately, can turn on their kids, give up their relationships, how that parent-child bond can be manipulated and destroyed. I think that the effect scientology and the sea org has had on individual families is the worst thing about scientology.


I fully agree here Astra,Whether it was not being there for the kids because parents were too busy doing Scientology or following Scientology polices and literature to the extent that the child/children were not given the opportunity to just be children.

Well they turned her down, told her she could not go and it was not her 'responsibility' to handle her daughter, that it was the cadet org's responsibility, she should not get involved. I know, even I can't believe it as I am putting it into words.


"Should not get involved" Unbelievable. Yet i do believe this,typical Scientology as i knew it. Seemed to me they thought they knew how to raise children better than individual parents And how the hell does that fit in with Freedom of thought and free expression?

I know how i felt when i was told i couldn't see my Dad because of the "rules".The rules being, him being in Treason and no one being allowed to talk with him except the EO.

I remember thinking "What has my Dad done that is so bad that i'm not allowed to see him" and then later on thinking maybe "its' something bad iv'e done and he dosen't want to see me".

The mental mind f**k,its called Scientology.

Sharon
the man who"wanted" to rule the world was a science fiction writer, who lived out his fantasies in real life.Some body some day will say this is illegal. It won't come soon enough.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WzE9Fzbrx3w
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Bea Kiddo

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Post Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:46 pm

I cannot, cannot cannot understand for the life of me why my mother was not more in the lives of my brother and I. She joined the SO when I was 3. My brother was 5. We hardly EVER saw her. When she had time to see us, she would bring us home, and she would sleep - she would take a nap. She hardly ever spent any time with us.

And boy she would get mad if we did anything to get in trouble!!! But did she ever do anything with us? I dont think so. I dont have any such memories.

She was always on post. She has been in the SO for so long, she knows nothing else.

Maybe there are memories of things we did together, but I cannot find or remember them.

And another thing: she has no pics of me when I was young. The only pics I have ever been able to find are the school pics taken. And my grandparents would take pics when I visited them. None from my mother though.

I asked her why. She told me she had enough pics of my brother she didnt need anymore pics of kids.

----

I do not understand Sea Org parents. I just cannot wrap my wits around it.
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truthseeker

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Post Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:35 pm

It is human nature as with all of nature to protect their young. An organization which goes against this is in my mind truly evil. :evil:
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outlander

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Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:42 am

I have spent some time looking at this myself, I wasn't a good parent in the SO, leaving most of it to my wife while I was saving the world. I really feel dread, disgust and hate at myself for the way I was, when now I fight ferociusly and will fly half way across the country to spend a few hours with my kids.

In my self healing, I have been studying hypnosis, understanding how hypnosis was used in Scientology. Powerful emotions can be linked and cross linked. There is a natural, almost biological love for my kids. I always felt it. Somehow, I don't know eactly where, my intense love for my children was linked with the sea org mission of saving the world ... I could justify not spending time with them because doing my job meant they would have a better and safer world. That "greater good" programming.

Some people don't even have that sort of biological care for their young, I believe these people are mentally ill.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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outlander

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Post Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:43 am

I have spent some time looking at this myself, I wasn't a good parent in the SO, leaving most of it to my wife while I was saving the world. I really feel dread, disgust and hate at myself for the way I was, when now I fight ferociusly and will fly half way across the country to spend a few hours with my kids.

In my self healing, I have been studying hypnosis, understanding how hypnosis was used in Scientology. Powerful emotions can be linked and cross linked. There is a natural, almost biological love for my kids. I always felt it. Somehow, I don't know eactly where, my intense love for my children was linked with the sea org mission of saving the world ... I could justify not spending time with them because doing my job meant they would have a better and safer world. That "greater good" programming.

Some people don't even have that sort of biological care for their young, I believe these people are mentally ill.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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NoSOat10

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Post Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:59 pm

Thanks for posting your thoughts, Outlander. It is good for me to hear your thoughts. I grapple with it to this day, as a parent now myself,, to understand how this 'incredible journey' looked to my parents when they embarked on it.

My parents joined and we followed them in. Since I was raised in Scientology and didn't find it on my own, it's hard for me to envision how it might have seemed to them. For me, I can't imagine anything that someone could say that would make me willingly give up my parental rights. We had two parents. Great parents. Both sane. How could giving over their preschool and preteen children ever made sense?

Convincing them that families were merely the down tone considerations of genetic entities, and getting them to transfer their loyalty and sense of purpose to the Sea Org, must have done the trick. I know they believed in the Utopian view of the Sea Org that was prevalent at the time, where everyone in the SO had superb ethics and operated on only the highest purpose line. And I'm sure it gave them never ending sense of pride to have made such a valuable contribution. Like when a child is selected as a child goddess, how could the parents refuse such an honor? I do wonder what they would say if we could talk about it now.
Last edited by NoSOat10 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
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31 December 1960
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Ex-OSAdude

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Post Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:55 pm

Back when Tom Cruise & Nicole Kidman adopted their two children, there was chatter that they were the babies of Sea Org parents forced to give them up.

It sounds like it's possible given all I've heard of Sea Org policies. Does anyone have any facts suppoorting this chatter?
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Wirestripper

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Post Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:38 pm

what I dont understand is why all the Ranch kids were so ill-mannered. I remember reading Emily Post on my Product 0, then getting off the EPF and running into that group. What the HELL man?

My first indication that something was very, very wrong in paradise....
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1. Desperation Breeds insanity
2. It can always get worse
3. Only crazy people win; Only winners can judge what is crazy
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doubleVee

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Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:06 am

Viewing your children as totally unimportant, and justifying in all sorts of ways like "they are just adult thetans in a small body" or whatever, carried over to Scientology parents as well.
I'll never forget one of my younger friends, whose parents were not in the SO, dropping him off at the org for 2 weeks with no food, no money, no place to sleep. He needed to go on course, and she was too busy to take him there.... I think she went out of town.
I made sure he was taken care of, but now I wish the authorities had gotten involved. Of course at the time I didn't think anything of it. I mean that literally, I didn't think about it at all. I didn't spend much time thinking when I was in the SO, it wasn't a good thing.
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outlander

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Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:37 am

NoSOat10 wrote:Thanks for posting your thoughts, Outlander. It is good for me to hear your thoughts. I grapple with it to this day, as a parent now myself,, to understand how this 'incredible journey' looked to my parents when they embarked on it.

My parents joined and we followed them in. Since I was raised in Scientology and didn't find it on my own, it's hard for me to envision how it might have seemed to them. For me, I can't imagine anything that someone could say that would make me willingly give up my parental rights. We had two parents. Great parents. Both sane. How could giving over their preschool and preteen children ever made sense?

Convincing them that families were merely the down tone considerations of genetic entities, and getting them to transfer their loyalty and sense of purpose to the Sea Org, must have done the trick. I know they believed in the Utopian view of the Sea Org that was prevalent at the time, where everyone in the SO had superb ethics and operated on only the highest purpose line. And I'm sure it gave them never ending sense of pride to have made such a valuable contribution. Like when a child is selected as a child goddess, how could the parents refuse such an honor? I do wonder what they would say if we could talk about it now.


No So,

Thanks for your response, I only just saw it, so sorry for not answering earlier.

One of the things that really messed with me was the unstated idea permeating the group saying "you are not on purpose, you are downstat, you are off purpose if you have children. I was so stuck into things, I subconsciously bought into it.

Like you, I was born into it. Makes it difficult for people like us, because we know no other way, we think it is normal. We think things like this are noble and right and positive.

When I was 15 my mother was horrified and saddened by my "decision" to leave home and join the Sea Org, my father had great pride. About 6 months before my fathers death, as an OT VIII who realized that Scientology did not work, he appologized to me for letting me be recuited in.

Part of the reason I am unwilling to completely condemn Scientology is of respect for his memory, I want to take everything possible from my experience and make it positive and empowering, so his mistake has positive meaning, and the efforts of his life can live forward in a positive fashion.

I like the way you write, you are articulate and thoughtful, you make a positive contribution to this forum. Thanks for taking the time to read my posts and respond with your thoughts and feelings.
Create that of your life that which you would like to see in a changed world. Ghandi
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Public Clammer

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Post Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:22 pm

Great posts, all - an a ? for Outlander...

My stints (only as class V staff) really messed with my head - and didn't waste time doing it, either! Hard for me to imagine being "born into it" or having parents/family even involved - but I try, and the images are ugly :cry: .

:?: Outlander - read any recommended books lately?

PC
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NoSOat10

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Post Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:24 am

Outlander,

I appreciate everything you said. Our stories have many similarities. I respect your wish to honor your dad and make a positive out of all you've been through. I strive for that as well. I feel he'd want me to be as good and true and honest a person as I know how to be, and though I may not agree with the beliefs he held in his lifetime, I feel certain he would not have supported what the church has become. At the very least he would want me to have the courage to call it like I see it. It may be just a convenience on my part, but I like to think that in death there is a greater awareness. I hope that is true!

As far as what you said about being made to feel like a downstat for having kids, that sucks. I know it seems normal to think that way when your in it, but boy does it sound backwards when you say it out loud. "Other people's spiritual well being is much more valuable than your child, or the life of that child you've dreamt of having." "Flunk for having (or wanting) a baby." In what other church could having an abortion be a viewed as a selfless act done for the good of humanity? Craziness.

It ties in completely to what was being said on another thread about how the church's focus is on helping the many with little focus on helping the actual member. I'm so glad for you and your kids that you are able to be there with them when you are together, really be present. IME many Scn parents are absentee parents, even many among Scientology's public members. Too often they are absorbed in training or auditing, and/or raising the huge sums of money needed for same. Kids need time and attention from people who love them.


(moved earlier section to a new thread)
Last edited by NoSOat10 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t get interested in real estate. Don’t get interested in the masses of buildings, because that’s not important.
L. Ron Hubbard, Lecture Series: Anatomy of the Human Mind
Tape: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology
Tape#: 6012C31
31 December 1960
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Jenna

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Post Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:50 am

From before I turned 2 years old, I was only allowed to see my parents for an hour a day and a few hours on Sunday morning.

When turned 4, I didn't see them at all during the week, but only for a few hours on the weekend.

This continued until I was 12. When I was 12, I was moved to a different state.

I saw my parents 2 times from when I was 12 until I was 16.

After I turned 16 I saw them once a year, until I left the Church.

When I lay it out like that, it is freakin shocking!
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astra

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Post Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:43 am

It really is shocking.

How can an organization that devalues family to the point of being considered irrelevant, or even a liability, really think they can be helping the world in any shape or form?

Imagine a world where parents all abondoned their kids and turned on their own parents... That is what scientology would create.
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